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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How about some nice, fair, unbiased reports? Also, to whoever said Phase Out isn't a weakness: you are, no offense, an idiot. It's the only thing that keeps Necrons from being broken! When will you people understand: the best way to beat a Nightbringer or Monolith is to AVOID it and shoot the rest of the army, phasing them out? it's a way to win without even targeting the toughest units, and you say it's not a weakness? What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
 

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You call a person an idiot for an opinion? Are you that simple minded that you cannot do anything aside from insult someone who has an opposing opinion if you?
Perhaps you should try to respond with something other then "Your an idiot" when trying to get another person to see what your point is, because with your current additude only you, my friend, come out looking like an idiot.
By the way, I am smoking nothing at all, I simply see an army that is so easily exploited and has so few weaknesses as compared to the other armies that one could easily consider them "cheezy"

The Phase out isn't a true weakness, why do I say that? No, Its not because I'm not an idiot, I simply have formed an opinion based on my own experiences and hence have stated that.
The phase out rule is often very easily made to be a small thing, two or three full groups of Necrons, or almost full with two lords/spiders in there, and with a monolith you have two WWB rolls, and with the lords and spiders VERY few of the units will be able to be insta killed.

I don't fear the monolith or the C'Tan in the least as a matter of fact, I find the monolith a huge annoyance but that is all, and the C'tan, well, If one wishes to sink that many points into something that isn't that big of a help most of the time (I'm quite aware the Deciever C'Tan can be used to great effect, I just haven't seen it in battle yet so I don't truely know)
I'v never complained about the monolith (save it being cheaper then a LR and by far more useful) nor the C'Tan, why would you say something like that?

I'm also quite aware of the standard reply by Necron players "Shoot the troops" yes, a good tactic if one is using a very shooty army but quite frankly a lousy excuse to try and explain away the Necrons almost overwhelming strength.

They do have a weakness, a lack of long range firepower, but with the ability to transport instantly across the battle field this negates that problem quite a bit for most engagments.

I'v personally seen Necrons win, not because of the player having better tactics, but simply because his fighters get back up and the others don't
When a Necron army is built to its full effect the necron army becomes almost impossible to beat, save those armies that have access to large ammounts of ord weapons.

Perhaps, Deciever I should make a assumtion about your intellect like you seemed to do quite often to people who don't like Necrons, I won't, I thought about it, but I'd rather be fair minded and not stoop to petty insults because someone doesn't like my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Look, this argument goes on and on, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. So I won't continue, except to say this: I am sorry for calling you an idiot, but I disagree. Monoliths do allow people to take WBB rolls multiple times, and a Tomb Spyders or a Resurrection Orb negate a large penalty, but each of these methods has a drawback:
1) Tomb Spyders are 55 pts. for doing nothing but helping with WBB and making Scarabs. Don't disagree, I mean they can attack but with BS and WS 2, good luck hitting something. They also have to be within 12" of the model they're "helping," which is often dangerously close to the frontline for what is, essentially, a noncombatant unit.
2)The lord needs to be within 6" to use his Res Orb. Since he stays with one squad most of the time, it means you can take out the other squads while he's distracted. I find Wyches are excellent troops for this, as power weapons prevent WBB. Plus, the Res Orb is 40 points, and so, since most players love using Destroyer body and Phase Shifter, a Lord with an orb means no VoD, which I can understand *****es the *&^$% out of opponents.
3)Monoliths, as far as helping with WBB, need to be within 18", and even when they do "help" Necrons with WBB, the Necrons end up near the Monolith. An army like IG or Eldar with tons of Blast, Ordnance Marker and Template weapons will hose a Necron army using Monolith, Res Orb and Spyder, as they will be punished for sticking too close together. Again, like all armies, it's all in the dice, but Necrons really don't have an advantage. In fact, GW saw how powerful WBB was and purposefully gave the necrons a big disadvantage: sadly low Init. Since the easiest way to keep 'em down is to use power weapons, troops with lots of said weapons like Striking Scorpions will mow down Necrons like freshly cut grass. In the end, Necrons are a tough, had to kill army whose main weakness is a lack of versatility. They do only one thing, but they do it very very well. Outmaneuver them, prioritize your targeting and use good strategy and you should be able to beat Necrons every time.
 

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Amen Brother Deciever!!

LOL

Good debate you have made your case and Brother Elandili has made his.

I must say your's is more logical and I am with you. No army is cheesey (yet) though some come close......
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think the closest this game comes to cheese is GK vs. Tau or Chao. Everyone knows about the Chaos thing, but The Shrouding absolutely hoses Tau until the GK get close, and then with Nemesis force weapons, it's bye-bye Tau. A well played GK army can beat the rangies every day of the week, and twice on Thursdays.
 

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Codex Daemonhunters is potentially one of the worst Codex books i have seen in a long time due to their effectiveness against things they really shouldn't be effective against.

How is it that a Psycannon is far more effective against Eldar characters (Warlocks, Farseers, Archons etc) than against Bloodletters?

Its possibly the most prominent example of GW dumbing down the rules and ignoring the background i have ever seen.
 

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Right, why would a chapter that in its background sopposed to be anti psykers/Chaoshave stuff like that.
Think about it, They would need something to go through the shields that powerful psykers can put up around themselves and those shields would be invuln so....
We aren't sopposed to be ONLY anti Chaos, we are anti psyker too which is why we are so geared to fight against them (and with your example, Eldar are very psy based no?)!

Why do you think all our rules should be against Chaos only? is the GK army sopposed to be screwed over like that? to put us as a one trick pony? That we shouldn't have any advantages against armies other then Chaos?

If you look at what we pay for our advantages and disadvantages you'll see its more then fair, our armies are TINY, We are paying almost double then normal marines for our Troopers for one, along with having no tanks other then the LR, no real heavy weapons and just general very low numbers..
But like all armies we can make up for some of the things that hurt us, we can have IGs or Stormies or both but we give up alot of the advantages our real basic troops has for more numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yea, I guess I sort of agree with Elandili as far as points are concerned... I can have 2.5 Sisters for one Grey Knight, and they would own...
But I still can't think of a single valid excuse for the Shrouding.
 

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I think I can explain that.

Because there's so few units, and they're so hard to kill, there's a heck of a lot of cheapos out there that just take aim with any form of heavy weapon and let it rip.

I think shrouding was just so the GK actually GET to use their stuff.

And whiny person about the eldar, I'm also an eldar player, and I'm going to say this.

If you are actually letting your seer council, avatar, farseer, etc. into their line of fire, you are an idiot. No offense.

This can summarize GKs pretty quickly. Psykers die VERY easily. Anything that shoots is toast. Close combat can rip you a new one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I personally think the "brokenest" model in the game is a Solitaire. Not that is is broken, just that it has an unspeakably good advantage in CC if it has a Kiss. WS 8 against half-WS enemies? Thank you, come again!
 

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Yah. It can even take down an Avatar, and they have WS 10!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, it's WS 5 now... when facing a Solitaire that is...
 

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A solitaire is a T3 character who can't join a unit. He has no armour save, and costs 190 points when equipped. Moreover he comes for an elite slot that could be used for Death Jesters. And Death Jesters are the only heavy weapons the harlies get.

The WS thing is a crock. If the Solitaire has a D-field you'll be hitting on 6s anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
190 points? Where are you getting that figure? He's only 90 when unequipped. He is unaffected by psychic powers and Psycannons, always passes morale checks, gets a save even against Lascannons and Plasma weapons, and with a Harlequin's Kiss, he'll be wounding on twos anyway.
 

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And thusly, handing the ass of anything that can be thrown at it right back to the attacker.
 

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Going back to what shadowcat said. You are really narrowminded if you believe that the daemonhunter's codex is dumbed down. For one as many have brought up before our armies are extremely small, we have to pay many points to bring anti tank weaponry of any kind. It really doesnt matter that we can ignore invulnerable saves when we are getting blown to hell by a leman russ battle tank. Stop making biased assumptions when you have no idea what the list can do and how people play them. Also, why would the psycannon which is charged with high caliber psycannon bolts be effective against a god's minions who specialize against psyhic powers like a little someone named tzeench?
 

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Originally posted by Mrmeeperthe2nd@Nov 15 2003, 21:50
Also, why would the psycannon which is charged with high caliber psycannon bolts be effective against a god's minions who specialize against psyhic powers like a little someone named tzeench?
It looks to me like they were talking uberness, not fluff.
 

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At least use a real example, anyone who has read the codex knows that the psycannon only has an ap of 4 and a bloodletter would only get his 3+ normal save boo hoo. People who complain about the grey knights being cheesy, get the codex read it, and make up some tactics against them, otherwise dont come to the forums complaining about how cheesy we are just because you dont know how to defeat them. Our armies are small, we lack anti tank weaponry, we kick ass in close combat, and we cant take transports unless we pay an assload of points. If you cant make up any tactics to defeat them based on those alone, stop playing 40k its imperial players like this that cost us Cadia Gate.

Sorry i blew up but people look, we all have armies that we hate fighting, but after you get your ass kicked by them, find out what happened and be prepared to counter it! Dont complain about how chessy it [email protected][email protected]!
 

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Well I don't wanna antagonize you... But I don't think the general feeling about DH cheese is simply because people hate fighting em.

I personally couldn't care less, but the DH have alot of special rules that make them very uber, albeit very expensive. That just seems to attract cries of Cheese. It's the same way with the necrons, who field some of the most expensive stuff and get some of the best special rules in exchange for those pts... lots of cries about cheese there too.

whaddya gonna do?
 
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