[boo]

so, i'm thinking of going to conlict this year, for the doubles thingy (2 people, each with 500 points) and i'm planing on doing wytch cult for my 500, something like
:
arcite (shadow field, drugs, punihser, helm, animus)
7~ wytch with sucubus & agoninzer in a raider
7~ wytch with sucubus & agoninzer in a raider

so wondering what would be good to go with it

something shooty similer to tau, a swarm combat army like orks, or another speed army like speed freaks (and i'm the only DE player i know before you mention them)

thanks

 

[Wicky]

so, i'm thinking of going to conlict this year, for the doubles thingy (2 people, each with 500 points) and i'm planing on doing wytch cult for my 500, something like
:
arcite (shadow field, drugs, punihser, helm, animus)
7~ wytch with sucubus & agoninzer in a raider
7~ wytch with sucubus & agoninzer in a raider

so wondering what would be good to go with it

something shooty similer to tau, a swarm combat army like orks, or another speed army like speed freaks (and i'm the only DE player i know before you mention them)

thanks

Hi,
Since you will have combat all sorted out here and 2 Dark Lances for minimal anti armour I would balance this out with some shooty goodness, possibly indirect fire if you can get some and use infiltrators to really get up your opponents nose.

Dare I say maybe Marines might be a solid choice here?

 

[Toloran]

so, i'm thinking of going to conlict this year, for the doubles thingy (2 people, each with 500 points) and i'm planing on doing wytch cult for my 500, something like
:
arcite (shadow field, drugs, punihser, helm, animus)
7~ wytch with sucubus & agoninzer in a raider
7~ wytch with sucubus & agoninzer in a raider

so wondering what would be good to go with it

something shooty similer to tau, a swarm combat army like orks, or another speed army like speed freaks (and i'm the only DE player i know before you mention them)

thanks

Lower point games are more about specialization then higher point games since you can't afford to spend 200pts on a squad to cover certain contingencies. As such, being able to defend your weaknesses and target your opponents weaknesses is more important. So it really depends on your preference:

If you want a balanced team, go shooty for the second set. You'll be able to handle most (if not all) threats but you won't be able to fully exploit the the opponents weaknesses since you can't bring your entire teams strength to bare against that weakness. For this, I suggest tau or chaos. Tau has the most physically weak troops but the pulse rifle is exceptionally good and long ranged. It can also damage vehicles as high as armor 11. Chaos has the Noise Marine armed with Sonic Blasters which have a high rate of fire (assault 2 or heavy 3) and bolter style damage. They are more expensive then tau (and weapons are weaker) but they can put more shots at farther ranged and are tougher in all aspects.

If you want to focus more on your strengths rather then your weaknesses, tyranids or orks are a good choice. Tyranids have the numbers to cover your army and if they run a tyrant that can deal with armor (since a single punch goes a long way from an MC). Nids also can produce hails of fire on the move and still assault. Orks also have the numbers but stronger shooting (if less accurate) but (on foot) are slower.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.

 

[DARKTROOPER]

If you can I would take a chaos over a marine army because nowadays they are bit more flexible all around. I would personally suggest either chaos or orks, chaos can complement you and orks can swarm their grunts and let you tackle their ard' boyz...

 

[KwiKwag]

If you want to focus more on your strengths rather then your weaknesses, tyranids or orks are a good choice. Tyranids have the numbers to cover your army and if they run a tyrant that can deal with armor (since a single punch goes a long way from an MC). Nids also can produce hails of fire on the move and still assault. Orks also have the numbers but stronger shooting (if less accurate) but (on foot) are slower.

I agree, I would also consider Kroot for their infiltration (they tend to make DE look slow) - they work wonderfully together. Good luck finding a Kroot player though - perhaps the Nids are the best bet in my books.

 

[Toloran]

I agree, I would also consider Kroot for their infiltration (they tend to make DE look slow) - they work wonderfully together. Good luck finding a Kroot player though - perhaps the Nids are the best bet in my books.

Yeah, kroot/infiltration might work. You could go the broodlord/genestealer infiltration route and get massive amounts of OM NOM NOM to work with your guys.

That said, good luck explaining it with fluff XD

 

[KwiKwag]

The idea I was getting at was when I played 500 points of Kroot - the infiltration was so good that a regular Kroot Carnivore Squad (troop choice) was able to charge and explode a loaded chaos rhino on the first turn (I won first move). I was able to entangle the squad for a turn and engage them in the 2nd turn and thus killed the Chaos Sorcerer with the Greater Daemon icon before the Daemon was summoned (yes, at 500 points).

Imagine that going on while 2 raiders of wyches and a dracite are hauling arse up the board. I think the idea of creating a diversion, infiltrating nids or kroot, will help the wyches 100% while having a shooting partner would only get them killed. The whole store will chant "oh, shoot the wyches! shoot the wyches!" as your Tau partner hides comfortably with little to shoot at in the open.

 

[dwalker18]

I agree with KwiKag. If you do happen to team with a shooty army though, one possible solution would be to put the whyches in a portal to protect them while your teamate weakens the enemy and they hopefully advance into charge range untill you can get the portal open. Even if you are on a team with another CC army, the opponents will still probably take down your raiders since they are pretty easy to kill and your wyches will suffer terribly if the raiders go down.

In my personal experiences, i do best when teamed with Nids because of their balance of bugs to shield my portals and their MCs to absorb a ton of fire. Hope that helps and good luck.

 

[medic_40771]

The local Ork player and I dominate team games. But we haven't played less than 1000 ptsa team member. I would say though that a wych cult is not nearly as effective at low point games and Tau suffer from the same problem. I would recommend regular Kabal elements and some other army like Orks or Nids that work well in low point games.

I'd be tempted to field a fully loaded Drachite, Ravager with night shield and 3x dissies and two supporting DL squads. You've just covered the anti tank, anti 2+ and anti HQ and let him take care of the anti troop and anti elite/counter assault.

 

[boo]

currently i'm liking the orks, with lots of foot sloggers, plus a couple of fire support squads, as it means that they can assist with the shooty, and later on, with the killy,
also, 2 questions:
1) in a 500 point DE army, how do you fit 2 troops, an HQ, and a webway portal?
2) with 2 sniper squads, and a fully loaded ravager, how many sportsmanship points do you think i would get


but yeah, thanks all for the advice so far, keep it coming

 

[KwiKwag]

currently i'm liking the orks, with lots of foot sloggers, plus a couple of fire support squads, as it means that they can assist with the shooty, and later on, with the killy

A good runner-up partner - it would be swell if he was mechanized or has some good infiltrators to take the pressure off.

1) in a 500 point DE army, how do you fit 2 troops, an HQ, and a webway portal?

I would not attempt a portal at 500 - absolutely not. You barely have enough points for 2 good troop choices (on raiders) and a dracon/drachite - I would not consider any portal until 1500 points. You just do not have enough points to do anything that will help your raiders protection. In this case "Speed is your Armor" and cover is your "Shield".

2) with 2 sniper squads, and a fully loaded ravager, how many sportsmanship points do you think i would get

I can't see how a ravager will fit unless you are going to go Kabal and run raide squads. A good compromise is a Wych cult where you can load up on blasters. Something like this:

Drachite (tooled the way you want)
7 wyches with 2 blasters, succubus w/agoniser on a raider w/ dissie
7 wyches with 2 blasters, succubus w/agoniser on a raider w/ dissie

This gives you 3 agonisers, 4 blasters, 2 disintegrators - pretty much you look for a 1st or 2nd turn charge and just place the lord with the squad with the random 12" charge drug. I have even sent the Drachite into a squad of marines and even on her own she is a marine killer. Just remember to separate the lord from the wych squad when you disembark and if the wyches fail the charge the lord can torpedo herself into the target and keep them from rapid-firing your wyches.

Works well I assure you.

 

[boo]

nah, the quetions were derected at the earlier posters who suggested such things, but my keyboard is a bit broken, so i didn't have the patience to quote them, sorry if unclear

 

[dizzie]

What about a mech eldar army to lend fire support.
you can get jetbikes as troops and load up on warwalkers to protect flanks, or be a nuisance with scatter lasers etc.
speed and fire power to help your hth goodness, IMO eldar would suit your needs and fluffwise it will work swell, eldar highering out DE for cash and what ever they can soul suck and scavange on the battle field. :drinking:

 

[medic_40771]

So we just played a 1500 point doubles tournament and since I played a Wych Cult I thought I'd post our lists and game results.
Drachite w Agonizer, drugs, Field
10 Wyches w W.Weapons, grenades, Agonizer on the Succubus + Raider
9 Wyches w W.Weapons, grenades, Agonizer on the Succubus + Raider
10 Warriors - 2 darklances
10 Warriors - 2 darklances

Warboss on a bike w power claw
12 Trukk Boys, Claw on the Nob, boss pole + Trukk
12 Trukk Boys, Claw on the Nob, boss pole + Trukk
2 Scorcha Buggies (squadron 1)
2 Scorcha Buggies (squadron 2)
2 Rockitt Buggies
1 Kannon
1 Kannon
1 Lobba

We got three Victorious Slaughters and one Crushing Victory. There were only two prize catagories Best Overall (which we won) and Best Sportsmanship. We lost some composition marks because of the three heavy support choices in the Ork list (even though they each cost about 20 points) but we were 100% WYSIWYG, had lots of conversions and were one of the only fully painted and based armies. But we also dominated the other armies so badly it didn't matter losing a few composition points. Nobody else even came close to our Generalship score. Fortunately I think our opponents were great sports and didn't retaliate with poor Sportsmanship and Honor Scores.

The Crushing Victory only happened because the Orks rolled double 1's to assault and my wyches both failed morale tests and got mowed down while fleeing. So even though we killed every one of thier models in the end we didn't have quite enough points for the Victorious Slaughter.

Two things worked to our advantage.
1) we had lots of anti tank: 6 lances and the Warboss (7x S10 hits on the charge) and 2 nobs (5x S9 hits on the charge) plus Rokkit buggies and Kannons. This let us mop up the 6 Demolisher list.
2) Only that one team who deployed on thier table edge understood just how fast our armies were. Both Trukks and Raiders can move 24" and the trukks can use the buggies as LOS blockers. Both armies could move 12", disembark 2", fleet (Call the Waagh) and then assault. We caught everyone in assault on turn 2, no exceptions.
3) we regularly play the HoH scenarios and were familiar with the special rules and the objectives. We also therefore claimed or accomplished the most objectives each game which added at least 600VP each game. Objectives win tournaments. We saw more than one team playing a scenario incorrectly and losing out on points because of it.

 

[Wicky]

Well Done!

Congrats on the inspiring win there and can I ask which tournament this was in?

And at the moment there is a lovely thread in the rules forum about the legality of Fleeting and disembarking in the same turn. Did you have any trouble using these actions together?

Cheers.

 

[medic_40771]

It was a charity event for cancer research held at the local GW store.

There's nothing lovely about that thread, or any of the dozen other thread on the same topic on any number of boards. But personal opinion aside I have never met anyone that questioned the right to fleet after disembarking.

 

[DEfan]

I got the Battle for Macragge in October last year. I do like the way SMs and Tyranids look but I was frustrated by both sides inherent weaknesses. The Tyranids could move hella fast but the shooting phase was virtually pointless for them. I didn't want an army that was purely H2H oriented. With the marines, they were hella tough but just too damn slow. Once they got bogged down in assault, they were always ground to dust by wave upon wave of reinforcments joining melee. That is when I started searching for something that had high number squads, moved fast, shot well, hit hard in assault and relied on intelligent use of cover. The DE stood above all! Thier attributes, FoF, high BS and Initiative attracted my attention and after a retake on my first impression, the look of the models appealed to me, too.

 

[Splata]

and battle for macragge reaps another soul....

haha, thats really amusing because i have a second army of tyranids which is entirely shooting based. So much so in fact that i try to stay away from the CC phase as much as possible (tactical flexibilities aside). My aim is to have the enemy die by armour save.

Although i feel this is slightly off topic.

Was this in the middle of a large mall medic? because someone else on the tyranid vboard just playa tournament for a charity as well (although it was singles).

Congrats by the way. A very interesting combination.

how did they treat the armies interacting? (ie. Synapse for two tyranid players, or IC's joining someone elses squad?)

 

[DEfan]

Sorry for digressing and congratulations from me, too! I'll try and make a more tentatively related comment.;Y
I plan to play against an Ork team soon at 500 point level. They are promoting the Ork army right now in Japan as the Green Menace campaign. You can bring your army in store and fight against the manager, I think. He'll probably use his Orc Spearhead thingy which looked amazing.

 

[medic_40771]

They used a chart that had three categories: Trusted Allies, Untrusted Allies, May Not Ally
There were no tangible benefits for having a Trusted Ally.
Untrusted allies were penalized in various ways. In one game we recieved -1 Ld for being within 6" of each other's units. On another table one army was forced to turn against it's ally. It showed a complete lack of imagination and was highly punative. Basically it rewarded the dull double marine lists and penalized any interesting army combinations.

It was in Chinook Mall in Calgary, a resonably big mall but there were no Tyranid players. As per usual in Tournaments there were a shboatload of Marines.

Black Templar/Custom Marines (6 Demolishers, lol)
Custom Marines/Custom Marines with a Baal Pred (we let that one slide)
Custom Marines/Custom Marines
Chaos/Chaos (Sorc w Lash, 2x Noise Marines, 2x Defilers, 2x Full TAC a Winged DP and a Pred Destructor)
Chaos/Chaos
SoB/Marines (Exorcist, tooled up Cannoness, two basic sister squads, Dred, 8 Termies led by Chappy, 2 small TAC and a Demolisher)
Demon Hunters/Demon Hunters
Orks/Orks (using one of the new Trukk models, a squiggoth proxied as a Battle wagon and a Mek with Shokk Attack gun) - these guys got royally hosed every game
Tau/Tau
Dark Angels/Chaos (which should never have been allowed according to the chart and this was the army forced to fight itself)
Orks/Dark Eldar