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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey folks

The new version of Invocation of Nehek is really baking my noodle.

The first paragraph is fine, not a problem.

Then it starts talking about order of ressurection and I get lost.

It states that you raise command models first, displacing models in the front rank.

This is biggest confusion for me. There is no way to kill a standard bearer or a musician herefore your command models (baring the champion being killed in a challenge) should be the last models removed from the table when the unit is destroyed.

So under what circumstances would they be resurrected to displace front rank models?

This resurrecting command models implies that you can raise a destroyed unit. However since the spell has to be targetted at a unit within 18" then you would have had to mark the point on the table where your unit was destroyed in order to see if you magic user is in range.

After you're done with command models then you move onto models in the regiment that have multiple wounds but no regiment in the entire army has the combination of command models and multiple wounds!

The only way for this to work would be to raise up a character that has joined the unit. (i.e. roll 6 on your number of models to be raised, your skeleton command is raised and then the remaining two wounds can be used to bring a Wight King that was with the unit back to full wounds) but the spell does not allow this unit/character combo.

This spell seems badly written.

Or is just me?
 

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First of all I think it's a pretty huge leap to say that this poorly worded rule implies you can raise destroyed units and that you have to keep track of where destroyed units were placed. If that were the intention of the rule, I'm sure it would have made that clear.

I believe the rule is just poorly written. The part about replacing models in the front rank with command models was probably just included as a sort of "what if" solution, since it may theoretically be possible to have such a situation occur (as you said, with the Champion, or if your Musician were targetted by a spell that doesn't have any targetting restrictions). Better to cover all possible scenarios than to have players confused at the table.

Also, it says Characters have to be targetted separately to regain wounds. As for units with a command option and multiple wounds, I believe this is meant to cover Cairn Wraiths / Tomb Banshees.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
First of all I think it's a pretty huge leap to say that this poorly worded rule implies you can raise destroyed units and that you have to keep track of where destroyed units were placed. If that were the intention of the rule, I'm sure it would have made that clear.
I know it's a huge leap but how else do you bring back command models first if the unit is not already destroyed?

I believe the rule is just poorly written. The part about replacing models in the front rank with command models was probably just included as a sort of "what if" solution, since it may theoretically be possible to have such a situation occur (as you said, with the Champion, or if your Musician were targetted by a spell that doesn't have any targetting restrictions). Better to cover all possible scenarios than to have players confused at the table.
I agree it's badly written but I want to know the rule or weapon that allows you to destroy a (none magical) banner or musician? If you target the model and kill them then another model just picks up the banner/drum. You cannot kill these models until the front rank is gone.

Also, it says Characters have to be targetted separately to regain wounds. As for units with a command option and multiple wounds, I believe this is meant to cover Cairn Wraiths / Tomb Banshees.
Characters do have to be targetted separately. The wording is aweful "Once this is done (refering to Command) models) any rank and file with multiple wounds are healed".

This implies the same unit.

English was not the first or second language of the person that worded this spell ;)
 

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You bring back command models first as follows. If you only have one model left say musician (after all you can chose which one survives) the you can raise skellies around that one model by first raising champion then standard bearer and the normal skellies. You cannot raise new unit of skellies only new units of zombies. IoN can only be used to increase a unit size or heal wounds not start new units. Also as you say champions can be killed in challenge so you would first raise new champion then raise normal skellies.
 

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Characters do have to be targetted separately. The wording is aweful "Once this is done (refering to Command) models) any rank and file with multiple wounds are healed".

This implies the same unit.

English was not the first or second language of the person that worded this spell ;)
It's definitely poorly written, but a little analysis and common sense (and just plain disregarding the parts that aren't relevant to you) makes it clear. No new units, command first, multi-wound models must be fully healed before adding a new model.

Think of it as the opposite of shooting, where you have to remove whole models instead of spreading one wound across the unit, and your command models always die last.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think I'm going to re-write the spell and bullet-point how it works.

That way I can show it to an opponent who has no knowledge of the VC army and easily explain it to them.

Thanks for the feeback folks! ;Y
 

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here is the timing of it.

1. was it cast successfully? if yes go to 2

2. roll a d6 (d6+4 if on zombies!) continue to step 3.

3. are there any dead command models that are part of the unit profile that were purchased at the start of the game? if yes go to step 4 if no go to step 5.

4. replace a rank and file trooper in the front rank with a unit champion (displaced rank and file unit is sent to the back of the unit.) . if your unit standard bearer is slain also continue to step 4a. if not continue to step 4b.

4a. replace a rank and file trooper in the front rank with a standard bearer (displaced rank and file unit is sent to the back of the unit.). if your musician is slain go to step 4b. if not continue to step 5.

4b. replace a rank and file trooper in the front rank with a musician (displaced rank and file unit is sent to the back of the unit.). continue to step 5.

5. replenish the unit with the remaining number you rolled at the start of the spell these models go into the rear most rank and do not get any bonuses for charging etc.

(for instance i rolled a 6 on my d6 therefore getting to resurrect 6 skeletons to my skeleton unit. i had lost my unit champion to a unfortunate look out sir roll and my champion is underneath a large stone, the champion is resurrected in the front rank and the model that was occupying his spot is now sent back to the back of the regiment. none of my other command models are dead so now just rank and file are replaced. which to all you math wizards out there is 5 more wounds worth of resurrected models. so five more skeletons pop up in the rear rank and do not count any bonuses for charging etc.)


the rules for this are to cover any wonky targeted shots that can happen, while i agree its not very static on how to resolve it like the steps i wrote out it is rather easy to figure out. rez any dead command models first then rank and file you cant rez a dead unit because there is nothing to target when you cast the spell while it doesn't say that it's obvious since you can't target something that isn't on the table!


in closing SENESCHAL declares a challenge, wiff... HE WILL BE BACK!
 

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Another situation would be if a character or Magic standard bearer in the front rank was killed and replaced with a rank and file trooper. Lets say the front rank is 5 long and I kill 3. He has to take commander, Standard, or musician as a casualty. When using IoN, he'd get that killed unit back before replacing the others.

Also, for commanders killed in Challenges, thats what its primarily used for.
 
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