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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The biker council (of Doom) is supposed to be a fantastic melee unit, but it seems to me that if the farseer can be picked out in melee (due to being an IC) then fails just one of its re-rolling 4+ invulnerable saves to either a Monstrous creature, a powerfist, or anything else that can cause him insta death, then suddenly the entire squad loses fortune and become glorified marines in melee.

So my question is do warlocks count as a retinue or a separate squad for the purposes of resolving combat?

Like Justice Scalia, the first place we must go is the text of the constitution... uh I mean the rules. :)
In the IC section of the rulebook it defines a retinue as essentially
"a special unit that they [charachter] cannot leave during the game (which is normally called a 'retinue', 'bodyguard' or something simliar')..."

Moving on to ye olde Eldar Codex in the HQ section of our army list.
"Warlocks:For each farseer in the army, you may include a squad of 3-10 Warlocks... Unit and the Farseer are a single HQ choice"

From these rules, it would appear that the warlocks, while indeed are a "special unit" that because the farseer has the capacity to detach from them, he can be singled out in melee as if he were merely with a squad of storm guardians or dire avengers... However the spirit of the rules would make me more inclined to treat the unit as a retinue. The warlocks can only be taken in a list with a farseer,
The second interpretation dramatically enhances the "hardness" of the unit as a lucky powerfist attack, or Monsterous creature s6+ hit, or shining spear charge can't remove fortune from the squad.

However it would appear that the rules know how to use words like retinue, or body guard, and it can be argued that they deliberately left them out of the warlock squad in our hq. Which is a strong argument as well...

If that is the case, how do you protect your Farseer in melee combat? All it takes is one Monsterous creature hit or power fist attack to slip through the seers invuln save to make the council infinitly more squishy...


EDIT:

OK, so it is apparent that the council does not count as a retinue. As such all that remains is my last question. How do you protect the farseer from being attacked by things that instantkill him/her?
It would appear that the council is rather effective at hitting monsterous creatures (ignor toughness to wound weapons) however any monsterous creature of at least 6+ can insta kill the farseer (if but one if its attacks get through the re rolling 4+), and the council itself is squishy without fortune. Same with a lucky powerfist attack?
 

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If you're afraid of instant death, don't charge. He can't be shot at if he joins the Warlock unit, just allocated too. Most MCs aren't super fast so it's easy to play keep away, shoot them and than charge for the kill before he swings.
 

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Use your farseer and council to turn every peice of armor into dust.

Charging a 2+ save Carnifex will only spell certain doom for your squad as he will allocate all attacks onto the farseer. And as you said once the farseers gone, the warlocks can only pray at that point.

My bike council is most successful in that it draws ungodly amounts of shooting. Once it makes it across the board, it will charge the most powerful peice of armor it can reach. Generally this turns out to be battle wagons, vindicators, land raiders, predator annihalators, Fire prisms, Lemon russ etc....

I generally use my tanks to shoot off with their tanks, praying that they will survive long enough to get my seer council in the flank of the enemy tank line. Then its generally game over, exspecially if they are fielding units of lemon russ =)
 

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Also if you really need to charge a unit with some powerfist thingie just mind war him to death and then charge like a mad man/ Also if you position your farseer well he will not be in base to base with the powerfist guy.
 

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Can't Mind War now be allocated like normal wounds?
 

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Thinks he's a big deal
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Nope, it's the psykers sniper rifle - you choose the target. Damn handy for killing off powerfists or heavy weapons :)
Ah. I got the impression from Fritz (WayOfSaimHann) that wound-allocation shenanigans were allowed. Thanks. :D
 

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Best advice is positioning for the charge in such a way that the powerfist is not in btb with the farseer. MCs should only be charged when you have a good chance of killing it in one round ( the council will probably be attacking first ). With careful placement the farseer will be safe unless charged, and with the speed of the bike council it is rare they will be charged.
 

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Ah. I got the impression from Fritz (WayOfSaimHann) that wound-allocation shenanigans were allowed. Thanks. :D

Why does everyone think Fritz way is the way of god? He was very good player in 4th edition and makes alot of bolt statements for 5th edition. Nor is he ever one this site to defend his statements.

Sorry i just see alot of references to his blogs but alot of his tactics are common sense for 5th edition, wild and out there, or personal opinion.
 

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Why does everyone think Fritz way is the way of god? He was very good player in 4th edition and makes alot of bolt statements for 5th edition. Nor is he ever one this site to defend his statements.

Sorry i just see alot of references to his blogs but alot of his tactics are common sense for 5th edition, wild and out there, or personal opinion.
He said in one of his 'crons tutorials (which, not serving the star gods, I watch for lulz) that Mind War could be allocated to one of the ablative plebes in your unit, and that the Monolith template could be the "new" Mind War.

The above being just for reference, was in no way intended to, nor should spawn a debate about Fritz.
 

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mind war states "choose any unengaged MODEL". So no you cannot allocate wounds because you wound a model not the whole unit
 

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Best advice is positioning for the charge in such a way that the powerfist is not in btb with the farseer. QUOTE]


Not quite. Models that are within 2 inches of the farseer may consider themsleves to be engaged with the farseerer. Pg 49.. If not in base to base with another enemy model.
 

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With a 12" move it is very easy to get a warlock in btb with the fist in most cases. Leaving your farseer to go into btb with another model avoiding the instant death problem. But yes you are correct just not being in btb with the powerfist is not enough.
 

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He said in one of his 'crons tutorials (which, not serving the star gods, I watch for lulz) that Mind War could be allocated to one of the ablative plebes in your unit, and that the Monolith template could be the "new" Mind War.

The above being just for reference, was in no way intended to, nor should spawn a debate about Fritz.
Sorry I just get a little heated when I see that kinda stuff.
 
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