Librarium Online Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering to make my own special character. I want him to have some special rules but I'm not sure how many point I should charge for them. I'm not interested in making him as cheap as possible just fair so that I actually could use him.
I was planning to use the statline of the old Cypher, as well as some of his special rules ( I love the gunfighter rule)

As I see it the Animosity and Divine Protection nullify eachother, and just removing them would not affect the total point cost.

The Hunted by Dark Angels rule could easily be cancelled as this is both a merit and a flaw.

And last the Fallen Angels rule, would be switched with Command Squad, although Fallen Angels may be 'worth' more because it grants the Chaos player marines with And The Shall Know no Fear, but it's just a minor detail

Making him count towards HQ instead of Elite should also be worth something and along with ignoring the difference in Fallen Angels and Command Squad should help justify the cancellations above

So for my little dilemma, how to make him special? and what should it cost? I was thinking of using some of the gifts and skills from the codex CSM and renaming them so they would fit a Space Marine. For example calling the Daemonic Aura gift Dodge (kindof like Ragnar Blackmane) Using these gifts and skills as a template would be the easiest way I can think of, as the pointcost is already worked out

This is how far as I have come. What do you people think? Could it work? I'd like to hear both comments/critics and suggestions please
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
You'll need to play test them. personally I'd avoid stuff like dodge as from what I've seen its a rare talent (besides blackmane only seen it for assassins, DA don't strike me as being particularly swift comparativly speaking) this is a DA character I'm assuming correct? (kinda obvious i should think considering, just checking).

What kind of a charcter though? master? Chaplain? Librarian? generic hero? to get an invulnerable save, you could give him that little watcher dude with the lion helm, a rosarius, or a special psychic power built into his fluff respectivly. other wise I'd be tempted to tell you to stick with the tried and true iron halo and hope your not planing on taking an emporor's champion. in a strech make one called 'the emporor's gift/protection' and make his fluff even more monastic then the usual DA guys.

special rules are over rated in my opinion. if you really want one then I'd make up a new one that increases one of his baseline stats and call it something appropriate (resilaint for instance and give him an extra wound, or precient and raise his iniative, etc)


personally, try not to go over the top with him. Most dark angels characters are fairly laid back and tame compared to some of the crazy guys from other chapters so i wouldn't break the mold.

Oh yeah, and ya gotta make a cool conversion for him! just because, well, at least try it on a spare model cause conversions are ALWAYS cool. tell me more and list equipment and maybe I can toss out some ideas for you, assuming you don't have it set in stone already :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The character is meant to be a (grand) master, not the others, The Old Cypher statline is most simlar to the Grandmaster. As the special skills I put on him, I have to detail out in the fluff ( like the dogde) In the fluff i'm currently thinking of he's to be a bit like SW (as I'm norwegian) Maybe something like that originally the character came from Fenris and became a DA instead of a SW. I have to work on his story when I decide what kind of abilities he is to have, so I can come up with a fairly logical reason for them.

personally, try not to go over the top with him.
This is always in the back of my head, thats why I want some feedback from you people on my progress

In a strech make one called 'the emporor's gift/protection' and make his fluff even more monastic then the usual DA guys.
I like this one! it's a good idea

special rules are over rated in my opinion. if you really want one then I'd make up a new one that increases one of his baseline stats and call it something appropriate (resilaint for instance and give him an extra wound, or precient and raise his iniative, etc)
This is basically what I have in mind, This very much alike what I detailed out in my first post, using DP gifts to modify the character and here I have all the pointcost laid out infront of me.

I'm not sure yet on how I'm going to make him. Using the Cypher mini as well, is tempting. I'm quite sure about one thing he must have robes. I'd have to buy the model and see if I can get the skeleton away form his chest without ruining the mini
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Hadn't seen the cypher model before, just found it. In a pinch the skeloton isn't that noticeable. maybe leave the skull and gouge out the surrounding area, make a putty mold os imperial eagle, make a putty copy of imperil eagle, slice off the wings and go that route?

Didn't know what "DP gifts" were (deamon prince?)


As far as the fenris bit, well, that could be down right amusing if you play it right. I mean they do recruit from other worlds. Imagine the irony of a great warrior being overlooked by the wolf priests only to be pick up by a dark angels envoy (perhaps they were there linked to their good old fued? maybe its an anaversery of that first duel?), and since space wolves don't value skill with a gun so much as skill with a sword that would be reason enough to not take him. Hell, if your really ambitious and can pull it off when playing the game, leave his weapon's skill at 4, certainly no higher then 5 though, to represent this (?).

Then, how to work in the monastic exterme to warrent notice by the emporor...

when he was on fenris maybe make him like an apprentice psuedo religious guy, since clerics tend to be better at fine skill work like shooting rather then blunt rage of HTH. And once taken he becomes a convert retaining his humility or something.

Then again if hes from fenris, and has dodge ability because of that, then you don't need to worry about it at all, least not for the invulnerable save anyway.


That fenris bit, you can have some real fun fleshing that out...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It is the irony of a Fenrisian turning into a DA that got me all started with this special character project. As for his stats, I have to work on that bit fluffwise since Cypher's line (if i were to use that) has a higher BS. Natural apptitude perhaps?

As for the reason why he became recruited by DA instead of SW, I could say that he was only born on Fenris, moved to another system (rich family maybe traders) Got separated from his family and DA recogniced his abilities and took him in. But he always remembered his past and despite the stickt DA doctrine, he always kept in touch with his inheritance

Didn't know what "DP gifts" were (deamon prince?)
Yeah thats the Daemon Prince gifts from the new Codex CSM, they should work fine when making a special character, some of them that is. Several of the gift consern extra points to the stats and some of them could be used, with exeption of the ones raising the strenght and toughness. It wouldn't be right to have a SM with higher toughness
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Originally posted by MasterBelial@Apr 26 2003, 20:56
As for the reason why he became recruited by DA instead of SW, I could say that he was only born on Fenris, moved to another system (rich family maybe traders)

I'm not quite sure if that would fly with the fluff fanatics. From the second edition codex for the space wolves Fenris is described as basically a feral world for all intensive purposes. I got the impresion that the only places on the planet that had technology more advanced then bronze/iron age were SW bastions.

I don't know how much SW fluff your privy too, but fenris is a real hell hole. extreme winters, planetwide earthquakes from tidal effects due to the proximity of their sun during their summer(s). every summer they hop on board sea-ships because every landmass except the northern continent that holds the Fang gets flooded from sinking into the ocean. I think even their ships are made from giant sea creatures' bones and skins. Not the kind of place you'd expect to find much of any technology from after the 1700-1800s.

Then again, its your character, and fluff is liquid anyway. I don't want to tell you your own characters background, I'm just giving you my 2 cents.

just a note, grand masters have BS: 5 baseline, thats 2+ on 1 D6. Anything above BS: 5 in third edition is just plain showing off :D and really is good for nothing more then bragging rites

FYI, in second edition the vindicare assassin had BS: 8, still hit on a 2+
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hmmm then the 'moved' idea isn't that good after all. I don't own the 2 ed SW Codex so I'm not that familiar with the planet. Thanks for the info!

Then again, its your character, and fluff is liquid anyway. I don't want to tell you your own characters
background, I'm just giving you my 2 cents.
Don't worry about that if I didn't want feedback/suggestions, I wouldn't have posted in the first place


Then I have to look for another reason... What if he as a kid snuck aboard a merchant/supply ship and got carried away, then left as a stowaway on their next port of call?
His family/parents could be devoted as servitors at a SW installation, opening the possibility of him ever getting close to a ship.

By the Way...How is Fenris located in relation to the EoT? I could claim a warpstorm carried him away, kind of like what happened to the Fallen after the fall of Caliban.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Don't have access to a 40k galaxy map. Theres another warp storm floating around i think, forget what its called (Malestorm?). Fenris is a little closer to that one i think. But IIRC its not particularly close to anything of note.


The Iron priest on fenris interact with the local native smiths, they act almost like the native peoples patron iron god or something like that. Anyway, all that buisness takes place on the northern continent i believe, and is probably the only place on the planet where locals would live in a stable enviroment. It also happens to give you access to a SW tech installation of a sort. I wouldn't call his parents servitors cause that'd mean they're basically cyborg slaves and not really parents (it'd also imply they both attempted to become SW marines and both failed), maybe make him come from a long line of iron smiths? though the stowaway idea ought to work out ok (I still don't like the idea of the merchant ship though, no real trade is ever mentioned, call it a supply ship from a forge world or something?).


Geesh, now why did i stop playing SW army again???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,575 Posts
The idea of a Fenrisian DA is brilliant! Think of the possibilites for blood feud rules! IIRC Fenris is actually fairly close to the Eye, so the idea of a warp storm is feasable. I mean terra was in a warp storm once, and I think Fenris is closer to the Eye than terra...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Allright, I'll go with the iron smiths that sounds cool. You are absolutly right with the merchant ship as well, supplyship sounds better. I guess I have what I need to start working on the basics of his fluff

But over to the rules, what do you think of the ideas in my first post? any comments? What do you think BorninDarkness could it work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,575 Posts
Well you were going to use his old statline right? Maybe you'd have to tone it down a little, because he (and most special characters with him) had some very high stats in the old 'dex. The initiative value is what's over the top here, nearly every Chaos sp character had a very high I value, and Cypher had the highest with 8!!! Considering SM and CSM characters normally stick to 5, I'd say lower it to 5 or 6 (6 being the maximum). If you want to be nasty, say he still has the C'Tan phase knife, only now it works as it should (ignoring all saves) :ph34r: . The BS 6 is just for show, you might want to lower that to 5 as anything higher has no effect, but looks a little too impressive maybe ^_^ .
As for special rules, I'm not sure here. You could keep the gunfighter, it's not really unbalancing but does a good job of showing how special and skilled he is. The dodge save could be a good idea, but if he's that agile the WS and I should be relatively high too (as I see these stats linked together with speed), and that would make him too much of an uber close combat guy. You could try a different idea for the dodge though.
Maybe you could make him some sort of inspiring leader, let him and the squad he joins re-roll morale checks, maybe let models within 12" use his Ld value as long as they have LoS to him. Just an idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Some interesting view to the 'case'. I agree with you one the Initiative, it should be lowered, its a bit uber as 8... (not that it really matters). What you say about speed is also quite right. Say if I kept the Initiative at 6 to show that he is really quick, I think the Initiative represents the agility better than the WS. But as long as they are 6(I) and 5(WS) it should be enought to show that he is agile

As for the C'Tan Knife, it wouldn't be fair pointwise for the start cost if I made more powerful than the powerweapon it counts as.

The Leasership idea is good, but kindof a waste since he would be stubborn due to indoctrination in Deathwing.

Bornindarkness; what did you think of my figures in the first post? Is my reasoning fair? (about the cancellation of rules)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
959 Posts
this is just an idea i had while i read this, instead of giving him a close combat weapon instead give him 2 master crafted plasma pistols and allow him to use them in close combat so in effect having attacks that ignore armour saves. basicaly make this guy the DA version of a emperors champion reflecting the DA's prowess with guns over combat. also allowing him to use his BS for his attacks but the enemy still fights against his WS. also how about something like 'lightning reflexes' to give him a 5+ invulnerable save
stats:
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
5 6 4 4 3 6 3 10 3+5+inv with a points cost of say 140

not too sure about being from fenris though, maybe eh was picked up from another feral world where he showed amazing skill and bravery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thats a cool idea you got!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
959 Posts
tell us how your character does on the battle field when you play test him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,575 Posts
I think the cancelling out of special rules is fair enough. You're right about the Stubborn thing, I forgot about that hehe. When a stubborn character joins a unit, the entire unit gets stubborn too right? In that case the 'inspiring leader' thing is a bit harder to do I guess :p .

Carcaroth's idea is pretty cool too, but having mastercrafted plasma pistols in close combat is somewhat uber. Even if you just say he's got a power weapon, letting him use his BS is huge. What you could do is let him fight using BS instead of WS, ie compare his BS to the opponent's WS when he's making attacks, while the opponent attacks with WS vs WS as normal. This shows he's skilled with the pistols, and makes it easier to hit but not too easy, whilst he's not overly difficult to hit himself (I'm basing this on the statline of WS5 BS6).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
do u plan to convert a character or juss use cypher?

special characters are pretty kewl...but making them, iuno, daunting task but fun?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
959 Posts
What you could do is let him fight using BS instead of WS, ie compare his BS to the opponent's WS when he's making attacks, while the opponent attacks with WS vs WS as normal.
bornin that's what i meant when i said use BS in close combat, but just in very unclear way, i do that sometimes . the only reason for the master crafted is to stop a character who's supposedly a good gunmen from killing himself with over heating pistols.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top