[Psyan]

Greetings! I was an Alpha Legion player in the previous edition and I had a no-vehicle, all-infantry list including two 20 man squads of metal cultists. Since GW in it's infinite wisdom rendered my Army defunct, I haven't played with my CSM because I've been unable to come up with a list I actually liked and I've been spending a lot of time using my Dark Eldar.

I've finally come up with a CSM list that I like, but it's a big departure from the usual type of lists I run. I'd like for it to be somewhat competitve, but I'm not willing to completely cheese it out for sake of competitiveness. It's my intent to abuse the threat threshold as far as vehicles are concerned, but in contravention to my old AL lists (Aren't you glad you brought those lascannons? I have no vehicles or monstrous creatures.), I'm trying to offer more armored targets than the enemy can feasibly destroy before I make it to assault.

Daemon Prince: MoS, Wings, Lash.
Summoned Greater Daemon.

5 Terminators: MoS, Chainfist, Heavy Flamer, x4 Combi-Plasma.
x2 Dreadnought w/ ML and Heavy Flamer.

x2 10 CSM w/ IoCG, x2 Melta, AC w/PF, Rhino.
10 CSM w/ IoCG, x2 Plasma, AC w/PW. (Rides in Land Raider, AC is Daemonhost)
x10 Khorne Berserkers, x2 Plasma Pistols, Skulll Champ w/ PW and Melta Bombs, Personal Icon, Rhino.

x2 Defilers w/ all DCCWs.
Land Raider w/ Extra Armor

Suggestions and comments welcomed.

 

[Psyan]

Does anyone have any input?

 

[flemingm]

Yeah, real shame about the Alpha Legion getting nurfed, because otherwise you'd be in combat by turn 2 at the latest

Anyway, with the khorne berserkers, I honestly think that Plasma Pistols are a waste of points. Hear me out.

Statistically they are worthless. Consider khorne in combat; each basic troop has 2 attacks base, +1 for MoK, +1 for 2 cc weapons +1 for charging at WS 5 Str 5.

If you add a champion with a powerfist you get 5 more str 9 attacks on the charge.

A squad of 10 Khorne berserkers and a champion with a power fist can dish out 45 normal str 5 ws 5 attacks and 5 str 9 ws 5 combat attacks on the charge. Are you telling me you still need to shoot your target with 30 points for 2 shots you don't even need, that could potentially put you out of charge range where khorne excel?

Instead, with the 30 points, upgrade the Land raider with daemonic possession to ensure that you will not be put off shooting those twin-linked lascannons that this army needs to take down those cheese imperial guard tanks that produce 5 plasma cannon shots a turn without overheating.

Also, with the 10-man CSM squad, when you say "plasma" are you talking about plasma guns or plasma pistols? If they are plasma guns they aren't worth it because you can't charge after shooting them, and if they are plasma pistols they might not be worth the 30 points that could put you out of charge range. I'm sorry to be so against plasma guns and pistols, pistols especially, because they just aren't worth the points when they can kill the guy firing them or put you out of a crticial charge range. Honestly there are better ways to spend those 15 points, and considering the ammount of combat attacks most of your squads put out it seems statistically irrelevant whether you have those 2 shots which could fail to hit/wound, burn the guy firing them or put you out of charge range. If you want to take plasma guns, put them into a squad of plague marines, who are designed to take a charge, because then if the gun burns the operator, he gets a 3+ save and a 4+ feel no pain save. That, and this unit will hold the charge against all but the most tooled up enemy units (lots of power weapons or the like) and will act as an anvil upon which you can hammer your enemy with the khorne berserkers and the summoned greater daemon.

With the lash daemon prince, many people swear by it, but if you put that lash of submission on something as big as a daemon prince, just remember that he can be targetted over troops and over most terrain without a cover save, and therefore if you are playing space marines and they have a whole devestator squad of lascannons, he can be targetted with 4 BS 4 Str 9 shots PER TURN!!! unless you hide him behind a land raider (be he can't cower there the whole time because he need LOS for his lash).

My point is, it might be more economical (i.e. make it's points back) if instead of giving the enemy a large, high priority target (and trust me, enemies will target him because you have 2 defilers to do the lash some justice, and he has a high threat value) why not give a sorcerer the mark of slaanesh and lash, and put it in a rhino optionally with daemonic possession, thereby protecting him in all but the worst circumstances and because he can shoot from the rhino, he is given the added mobility of the rhino whilst not being a large target that is easy to see and hit. Just a thought, as I never run a lash prince or sorcerer myself (Khorne tend to want to bust your head open with an axe rather that a magic trick).