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Should a bloodthirster be allowed two magical weapons?

  • One magical weapon and lose the additional attack from the whip

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • one magical weapon and keep the whip's additional attack

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Two magical weapons as he already has two weapons

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Heres a question for you to debate.


I witnessed an occurence of this at throne of Skulls where two players, one a daemon player were thrashing out a point of rules law interpretation and also debated on one of the daemon forums.


It concerns the Blood Thirster and his gifts, specifically loading him with weapons.


The basic rulebook categorically states that a magical weapon, unless specifically a paired weapon such as fencers blades or Crone Hellebron's blades cannot be used in conjunction with another magical weapon. - Which is the stance I take also in relation to this argument, as much as I'd like the other standpoint to be true!


I've sent a copy of this to the FAQ team in the hope it appears in the next FAQ's for daemons (fantasy)


Viewpoint 2:
A bloodthirster as standard has an Axe and a whip as an additional hand weapon.
Therefore, when taking gifts, one can substitute for two automatic weapon choices, since he uses two weapons already. The argument is that since the Daemons of Chaos specific weapons do not say to the contrary they can be used one in each hand.


Thus, if I were to take a greater and a lesser gift, working on this theory I could have the following for my Bloodthirster:
Axe of Khorne - +3A when three or more enemy models are in base contact.
Blade of Blood - +1S and Killing blow


So my thirster could be hitting at S7 with 9 attacks and Killing blow.


or...


I could take the eternal blade and blade of blood.


or... use the lesser gift to buy the blade of ASF and the greater gift to get the +3A.


I'd be interested in your take on this as I have read on other forums that viewpoint 2 is the case, but admittedly this is the view of a daemoncentric audience.


Don't get me wrong in this edition where magic counts for a considerable part of the game, this would elevate the thirster as the ultimate combat beast if we could load him out with two magical weapons, ignoring the single weapon rule since he is slaughter incarnate :)
But I think that perhaps this would have been something which if it were the case, Ward wouldn't have overlooked.


So as I say, mine is viewpoint 1, BRB says one magic weapon and that's how it is. Although I'd live viewpoint 2 as it would make the thirster everything he should be.
 

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3rd paragraph on pg61 of the Daemon army book answers this one already; "If a model ends up with two or more magic weapons, it must choose which one to use at the start of each close combat..."

So no, you cannot, under any creative RAW bullfunky or other such gak, try and claim multiple bonuses from 2 or more magic weapons a model may be carrying.
Army Book trumps Rulebook, and our army book is 100% crystal clear in this matter!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
that was my stance on the matter E626, I was just impressed that the thread over at DL and also the debate at the throne of skulls lasted as long as it did - I thought it was clear cut. Yet there's still the dickwads that argue that just being "the bearer" is enough to get the items power.

So, where are you on the thirster's whip? if he has a magical weapon does he still have the whip as an additional attack?
 

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A magic weapon replaces a models normal weapons, so unless the thirster has a special rule that states otherwise he loses the additional attack.
 

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The BloodThirster entry on pg85 describes both the Axe and Whip as Handweapons.
Then on pg82 of the BRB it says
Unless otherwise stated, a magic item is treated as a hand weapon, and follows the rules for such, with these exceptions;
- A magic weapon cannot be used alongside an additional hand weapon to gain an extra attack
That's pretty definite: you cannot gain the +1A from the whip or axe in addition to your weapon. You still have the whip and axe (in case your Magic Weapon is destroyed by an effect), but you can't use them to gain any additional attacks, or choose to use them at all as long as you're carrying your magic weapon.

The argument of Bearer vs. "Using" is still pretty ambiguous, because technically you are bearing a weapon just by having it strapped to your belt. They should have keyed everything to wielding the weapon, and then said that you can only wield a single weapon at a time. But oh well. The rules as intended seem to imply that you can only have the benefits of single item at a time. But I can still understand why people would argue otherwise. I think that it's definitely a semantics issue though, and would still smack the daylights out of anyone who tried to argue that they can get +3A and +3S by combining Sword of Bloodshed with the Giant Blade.
 
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