"Dark eldar are so cheesy..."

4447 Views 62 Replies 29 Participants Last post by jole, Feb 22, 2006

TzarNikolai

Discussion Starter · Feb 4, 2006

why do i keep getting complaints that dark eldar are cheesy? apparently people are afraid of facing my webway strikes and my "bazillion" dark lances.
oh, and 30" charge wyches are apparently broken.

who else gets these complaints? i'm not even very good with my DE, i've recently started but already with the complaints.

i try to defend it by coming up with weak points to counteract things like raiders being so cheap but sometimes i can't seem to think of anything. what are the main weaknesses of the book?

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brushman

· #2 · Feb 5, 2006

Really?

Wow, usually people underestimate DE and don't think they're that good and they're hard to play with. That's suprising.

Maybe tell them how weak your units are?

Ben

Slathe

· #3 · Feb 5, 2006

Tell them you're playing the most underused army in the 40k universe, and that maybe if they got their minds out of the MEQ box that they've constructed, they'd not only be able to play something more original or use their MEQ units in a more original way, but they'd be able to counteract the unique strengths of a DE force by using a little thing called creativity and strategy.

That should shut them up

-Slathe

WraithGuardian

· #4 · Feb 5, 2006

Dark eldar are deadly if you play em right, especially wych cult thats the best army in the game by 40k standards. I dont think they are cheesy cause they are hard to play with. If your good with em, then... they might be cheesy from your oponent's view.

danceman

· #5 · Feb 5, 2006

Either DE sucks or DE are broken... how lovely it is, isnt it?

I truly despise gamers like this "If I cant beat your army its cause its broken and cheesey" which translates roughly into "I´m stupid, I´m very stupid, I´m an annoying griefer, I should start using tactics, I maybe should try and take a look on my own list for faults".

I dont know what to say really, just maybe introduce them to something that is called tactical thinking and not just put their army on auto-pilot each battle.

or counter give them a taste of their stupid comments back ;
"having t4 and 3+ on your troops is soooo cheesey".
"Using a Land Raider is overpowered, its av14!!"
"Wraithlords are sooooo cheesey".
"Starcannons are so overpowered".
"<insert Random dumbass argument>".

Or just look for other opponents :yes:

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Sareld

· #6 · Feb 5, 2006

My opponents really dislikes wyches. According to them, wyches are cheesy, and easily wipe out twice their own point value of genestealers or assault terminators in a single round ect. I have tried to tell them, that even though it happens from time to time, wyches are not really that hard hitting, and that they furthermore has a weakness against shooting that balances out their mad cc skills. Seriously, I know that wyches are good, but broken...? I think not.

The Incubi

· #7 · Feb 5, 2006

Funny, since it seems that dark eldar have literally no variety to choose from, so we are forced to play what we have. That is different from my game store, dark eldar pretty much is seen as an aarmy that collects dust. I myself have converted from dark eldar. Read another codex, and you'll see how GW has pretty much given dark eldar a disadvantage.

sithjack

· #8 · Feb 5, 2006

Tell them to take more bolters, pulse rifles, gauss flayers, etc. Basic weapons are probably the best weapons to use against DE. And Raiders have to be cheap because they're really easy to take out. People who call DE cheesy are just people who can't understand the abilities of their basic weapons.

NiteRabbit

· #9 · Feb 5, 2006

It's sad, isn't it? To think that Dark Eldar are widely regarded as one of the worst armies in the game until you actually play against them. While you do not see much variety in terms of Dark Eldar lists, they can be pretty hard to deal with and this leads people to claim that they're cheesy/beardy because they don't have the tactics to deal with them. Personally, I think it has to do with arrogance and overconfidence in their own abilities more than anything else, plus the fact that they've been playing against MEQs for too long.

Slathe

· #10 · Feb 5, 2006

NiteRabbit said:
It's sad, isn't it? To think that Dark Eldar are widely regarded as one of the worst armies in the game until you actually play against them. While you do not see much variety in terms of Dark Eldar lists, they can be pretty hard to deal with and this leads people to claim that they're cheesy/beardy because they don't have the tactics to deal with them. Personally, I think it has to do with arrogance and overconfidence in their own abilities more than anything else, plus the fact that they've been playing against MEQs for too long.

The overconfidence thing is a big part of it. My first game out w/ my DE army last week was with a bloated 1200 pt army (i only brought enough stuff for 1000 pts, 1100 i guess since I had my talos with me, so the last 100 pts were more wargear and whatnot i threw on for the benefit of my opponents), I played a two v two, my friend had orks, and he and I teamed up against an ironfist marine player and a ravenguard. Needless to say the ravenguard guy went full assault build, spent about 27 pts per model, and ran right at my one wych squad and my teammates killa kans. I told him flat out he'd lose to my wyches if he got into melee, but he was too ****y to listen. If he had just kept using his jetpacks to fallback and shoot he would have wiped out all of my wyches before i caught him (the one round of fire from 1/4 his squad (the rest had no los) took out 1/4 my wych squad). But he was too ****y and underestimated my wyches. They wiped him out in about 2 assaults.

Same sort of situation happened w/ my ork player and the ironfist guys dreads. Instead of keeping moving and shooting their assault cannons, he charged the orks. The powerclawed ork killed a dread anytime it got into combat. I think too many players, especially MEQ players, just don't think beyond the MEQ setup, and so anything different can really come out of the woodworks and catch them off guard, and they dont think, because they're so sure of their powerful MEQ army, of how to deal with it in a better manner.

-Slathe

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WraithGuardian

· #11 · Feb 5, 2006

Dont yoall think that dark eldar should have more units to choose from? I mean think about it, dark eldar players are practicaly forced to use warriors and wyches since they have nothing else. Now look at craftworld eldar for example, they have like 4 types of just bikes while we have one.

Slathe

· #12 · Feb 5, 2006

I think if they just tweaked some of the current units to make them more viable in non-specialized situations they'd be okay. For instance, if the hellions had an assault weapon as opposed to a rapid fire weapon, they'd be a ton more viable, or if mandrakes could take some upgrades or something. The problem w/ DE I dont think is lack of units, but lack of units versatile enough to be useful in more then the most specific of situations. Wyches and warriors are adaptable, most of the other units really arent, and particularly when you're measuring those other units against wyches/warriors, especially when there aren't a lot of upgrades for those other units to make them more viable (Imagine a mandrake leader that could take an agoniser / punisher / power blade, or grotesque upgrades that would let them use haemonc weapons. Maybe some of these ideas are overpowered but I think the spirit of the problem is just a lack of flexibility in non wych/warrior units)

-Slathe

Grey

· #13 · Feb 5, 2006

Farseer Sareld said:
My opponents really dislikes wyches. According to them, wyches are cheesy, and easily wipe out twice their own point value of genestealers or assault terminators in a single round ect. I have tried to tell them, that even though it happens from time to time, wyches are not really that hard hitting, and that they furthermore has a weakness against shooting that balances out their mad cc skills. Seriously, I know that wyches are good, but broken...? I think not.

When fighting with a standard Ork List versus a Wych cult list about a year ago..

My Grots manning my Lobba batteries saw off 3 squads of Wyches by themselves, easily paying for themselves three times over.

While,

His other Wych squad saw off my Mega armoured Warboss and his Mega armoured Retinue, easily paying for themselves three times over.

Kinda balances out.

Wyches rock in Hth, suck versus shooting.

Tell em to shoot the DE and stop whining.

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Wrestler220

· #14 · Feb 5, 2006 (Edited by Moderator)

Hey guys.

I play Eldar and Chaos, and I for one am getting mad at peoples complains about how cheesy my armies are
"man infiltrating marines are sooo cheesy"
and
"daemonettes are cheese"
I'm positive you guys feel the same way about the whiner's complaining about your army.
Well here's the perfect comeback for them

Mod Edit ~
Watch the language. Comback removed for being vulgar.

~Cal

Works every time...

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The Incubi

· #15 · Feb 6, 2006

The problem? A 5+ save will get you no where. Bolters are ap5 and THE most common weapon in the game. Pretty much anything can kill you. Our best save(not invulnerable) is an incubi's 3+ but they are still considered expensive. Our gunships which are strong are easily taken down by lascannon's and everything else.

Shadow field only lasts so long against standard troops. That last 17% will fail after so many rolls.

Whoever says dark eldar are "cheesy" are to be ignored. If they wanted to be cheesy tell them they should of picked up dark eldar.

Neferata

· #16 · Feb 6, 2006

Usually when I crack out the DE, I get a barrage of comments on how "crappy" or "worthless" the DE are, and how they "can't win." Usually I remedy this with annihilating the pants off of whoever I'm playing against.

Once the games are over, it's THEN that I got the "cheesy" comments. I don't find DE to be cheesy. They're great at games where all you have to do is kill your opponent and get victory points. In most games where there are actualy objectives, I take heavier losses, but end up winning because I was able to take the objective. That's not cheese, that's called good tactics.

DE are VERY fragile. Anyone who thinks that a T3, Ld8, ArSv6+ unit flying around in an open topped Armor 10 vehicle is UNSTOPABLE needs to seriously consider putting their foot in their mouths.

Wrestler220

· #17 · Feb 6, 2006

I totally agree with everything Neferata said. DE are definately not cheesy, they have their special way of battle. When the DE are played perfectly using this style of battle, they own. But if played wrong they are usually demolished.

Oh, and wraithguardian, FYI the Eldar have one kind of bike, just like you...

Terzo

· #18 · Feb 6, 2006

I'd also like to point out, Raiders are not the most vulnerable transports. I believe that honor goes to Ork Trukks. And you thought +1 on the glancing table was bad.

Neferata

· #19 · Feb 6, 2006

Yeah, but at least boyz know how to "bail out," lol, our wyches rely on falling in such a way that our kevlar groin protectors absorb all of the impact...which usually doesnt quite pan out in our favor.

gen.nehring

· #20 · Feb 6, 2006

dude, the dark eldar raider is the best transport vehicle in the game. cheap as a rhino, more survivable thanks to glancing, the ability to double a rhinos movement, and if needed, can give support with their weapon. Then open-topped is the best part of it, cuz it means you can still asault after moving 12"

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