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Hey guys,
My friend has just started playing Dark Eldar, and he's playing a Wych Cult army.
My army stands thus:

Hive Tyrant - Catalyst, S 6, I 5, WS 6, Scy Tal x 2, Sv 2+, Flesh Hooks

Carnifexes x 2 - BS 3, S 10, I 2, Sv 2+, WS 4, Scy Tal, Barbed Strangler, Flesh Hooks

Tyrant Guard - 2x broods of 3, Flesh Hooks

Tyranid Warriors - 2x broods of 6, WS 5, I 5, Sv 4+, Rending Claws, Scy Tal

Approx 60 "Adrenalgaunts" - Base gaunt genus, leaping, I 5, Scy Tal

2 Lictors


His army, according to the new Dark Eldar revised Edition Codex, has OVER 100 WYCHES. On top of that, he has a Dark Eldar Lord with Haemonculi weapons (complete with Incubi Bodyguard), about 20 grotesques, 6 reaver jetbikes, all wyches mounted on Ravagers....it gets a bit hazy now. I know he has a webway portal, some helions, and some heavy support, but he won't tell me much more.

All of this is in a 1500 point battle. Apparently, because he has a Wych army, each wych is 6 POINTS EACH.
:blink:
I don't want to change my army much, mostly because this will be in a tournament-style game we are playing in. However, I am open to SLIGHT alterations, but most importantly advice!!! This army description has scared the spit out of all my friends who play 40K, and they haven't been much help. In addition, I'm a newbie at the gameplay side of things, so I can't just know what I will do with an army I've been playing with for ages....because I haven't. Please help!!!!
 

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A wych cult is a very difficult opponent for tyranids. I play both tyranids and dark eldar myself, and the only chances to beat a wych cult in close combat even with tyranids is luck or a stupid DE player.

Do NOT field genestealers against DE. Dark Eldar are faster than genestealers, so they can easily avoid close combat with these (and shoot 'em up), and wyches statistically BEAT genestealers in close combat at equal points, even without charge bonus (which the wyches will get, that's unquestionable).

Insist in using the old assault rules, wych cults benefit a lot from the new ones.

Do not use any scything talons, they get negated by wych weapons. Use spinegaunts instead. Drop the initiative upgrade, it's useless as wyches are I6.

Get three biovores with poison mines. DE hate these.

Some notes about your opponent's army list:
Dark Eldar Lord with Haemonculi weapons (complete with Incubi Bodyguard)
A DE Lord can't have haemonculi weapons, these are only for, well, for haemonculi. He can't have haemonculi in a wych cult, and incubi aren't legal either (incubi aren't that good against tyranids though).

all wyches mounted on Ravagers
Ravagers are heavy support, they can't transport any models. Probably you mean a raider (there is a huge difference...).

jwu
 

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I've not a lot of experience with Dark Eldar, but do have some generic info.

If he is fielding a huge number of models, use that to your advantage. Biovores were already mentioned. I would add that Barbed Stranglers can be effective at making holes in big units.

Lash whips are great against masses of enemies that have more than one attack each. Bioplasma will give you enough speed to beat out the high initiative that has been mentioned.

Hmm, I wonder if this might be one of the few cases where I'd actually try rippers. Lots of wounds on them (best bang for your points in that respect) and they do have a number of attacks.
 

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dark eldar are scary they are the only army i have never beaten with nids.. count on htem being fast aswell as getting the first assult. poison spor biovores make a mess outta large units . try and shoot wyces they font get there 4+ save then and avoid theyer wych lord or archon at all cost! i cant stress that enough most of your hits from the big 3 (tyrant lictor carnifex) will vape them so dont bother. and bioplasma is a must. my tyratn has killed an archon with the shadow field twice before he has even gotten a hit in. other then that i cant be much help. og ya talos are a pain in the ass iether you waste lots of mon power or shots on them and kill em or they make a nasty hole.


XG
 

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I dont have the DE codex but I just looked in Armybuilder and it shows wyches as being 12 points a piece rather than 6 for a wych cult army.
 

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Dark Eldar yoy say :blink:
hehe i lawf at them i got a friend that is playing
with DE and i im playing with nids

you need lot of bioves an lot of spinefists,
barbed stranglers and devures...

Snotmann-
 

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As has been already said, take Biovores with Poison mines. Remember, even though the Wyches are transported by Raiders, the Raider is still open-topped from my memory. This means Poison mines will cause a glancing hit automatically. Apart from that, take away the scything talons as mentioned before. I hope this helps.

-Dismal
 

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Good stats, the fact that they almost always charge, their ability to halve the opponent's WS for attacks against them, combat drugs (a random bonus such as S+1 or A+1 or rerolling ALL missed to hit rolls), extremely high initiative, their ability to negate the opponent's bonus for two ccws, 4+ invulnerable save for all models.

At equal points, they beat genestealers and khorne berzerkers in close combat. They die in hordes if you shoot them though (the inv save works only in close combat, no "real" armour save).

jwu
 

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Lots of termagaunts with devourers
Make them have strength 4 so you'll have strength 3 devourers that'l rip whyches apart like c***
 

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...or just take tons of spinegaunts. These will have a similar firepower due to their higher number, but more wounds on the table than gaunts with devourers have.

Against DE fleshborers have a certain use, as they can damage raiders.

jwu
 

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Dark Eldar are hard to beat. Can someone help me counter this list? What should I use? I know alot of it has already been said, but I havent found any real good advice on this topic so far. Is this because there is really no good way to beat DE?

HQ-- 795

Archon
Weapons: Agoniser and a Splinter Pistol
Wargear: Shadow Field, Plasma Grenades, Combat Drugs, and a Hell Mask
(2+ Invulnerable)
Points: 138

Archon’s Retinue of 8 Incubi (and Drazhar)
Weapons: Tormenter Helms and Punishers
Wargear: Plasma Grenades
Points: 216

Drazhar, Master of Blades
Weapons: Disemboweller Blades and a Tormenter Helm
Points: 90

Dracon
Weapons: Agoniser and a Splinter Pistol
Wargear: Plasma Grendaes, Combat Drugs, and a Hell Mask
Poimts: 88

Dracon’s Retinue of 9 Incubi
Weapons: Tormenter Helms and Punishers
Wargear: Plasma Grenades
Points: 243 =27 points each


Elites-- 705

10 Wyches X3
Weapons: 2 Blasters with Wych Weapons and 8 Splinter Pistols with Wych Weapons
Wargear: Plasma Grenades and Combat Drugs
Points: 160 = 16 points each! ouch!

Raider
Weapons: 1 Disintegrator
Upgrades: Night Shield
Points:75


Troops-- 440

10 Warriors X4
Weapons: 6 Splinter Rifles, 2 splinter cannons, 2 dark lance
Points: 110


Heavy Support-- 380

Talos
Weapons: Talos Claws and Talos Sting
Points: 100

Ravager X2
Weapons: 3 Disintegrators
Upgrades: Night Shield
Points: 140
 

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Well, I don't know about a full list, but you probably want to start with Biovores x3 with Poison Mines x3. Aim for the Wych Raiders first, Ravagers second, and his HQ third.
 

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This is an interesting situation to say the least. IE, the nids going up against the DE, who excel at what the nids do best, close combat. It looks like his list is 2380 points.

With 2380 points to work with and his troops being Toughness 3 for the most part, I would suggest a few things:

-Instead of Venom Cannons on ALL of your Fexes and Hive Tyrant, throw in a few Barbed Stranglers. They work great on Toughness 3 models. Keep a venom cannon or two around for those pesky bikes and the ravagers though.

-Take the 3 Biovores as someone suggested above. Use the frag spore mine since it is Strength 4, the poison mine is AP4 vs. the frag mine's AP5, but keep in mind that the DE have crappy armor saves in general, so the extra strength of the frag mine is the ticket.

-Field at least 50 spine gaunts JUST to attack the wyches. Don't charge the wyches in combat, just get inside 12" and hit them with the spinefists. As soon as you get into CC with them, they are going to make your gaunts into dog food. Immediately after you hit him with the spinefists he is going to charge you with the wyches and kill your gaunts. Make sure your fexes and Tyrant are in position to open up on the wyches after they are done with the gaunts.
 

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What a strange Dark Eldar army!! To beat these guys, you need to swarm the 2 HQs. Sure they're tough as hell, but they can be beaten by shear numbers. I can't count the number of times I've watched my Archon run off the table with what is left of his Incubi retinue after one unlucky round of HtH. This guy has 800 points in HQs!

Wyches are a great bargain for DE. While they don't mow through the enemy like an Archon/Incubi group, they're great at tying up the enemy. 4+ invulnerable in HtH is great. They're great weakness is lack of armour against shooting (6+ save).

Watch out for the 2 Ravagers! Each one has 3 disintegrators - S7/AP2 small blast template on a BS4 vehicle! The night shield adds 6" to the distance between you and him for shooting.

Talos is a great HtH model. S7/T7/3 wounds, armed with a power weapon with D6 attacks.

The warrior squads aren't right. You can't have 2 each splinter cannons and dark lances. One 2 of these weapons per foot squad (only 1 of each in a Raider mounted squad).

I'd run a more shooty DE army against 'Nids. Lots of splinter cannons (24", assault 4, S4, AP5). A squad of Scourges (jetpack models) can have up to 4 of these! Lots of Disintegrators (they can be mounted on Raiders as well). Lots of warrior squads - you can have up to 20 warriors in a warrior squad, armed with 2 splinter cannons, 2 shredders (12" S6/No AP, small blast template), and 16 splinter rifles (Rapid fire, 24", S3, AP5).

Ravagers blasting 'Nids away at a distance, Warrior screens out front where they pump lead into the onrushing 'Nids, and Wyches, Warp Beasts (3A,S4) and Talos available to counter assault. Archon Lord Cru'X
 

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i never get a chance to shoot his wyches unless i crack the raiders they are in. He is always the one to make the assault , he is so much more mobile.

what i hear so far is "lots of spingaunts" and "biovores" i know that much, but what can i do about the incubi? thier powerweapons are quite powerful. Genestealers agianst them, thier iniative is 5 i think, they have T3. no invols. Genestealers would work agianst the HQ. eh? i can get around 45 genestealers to match his 20 model HQ unit, eh? for the same price...eh? now, for those wyches, tie them up with mass spine gaunts, i can get 3 gaunts per wyche, 60 sounds about right



Troops = 1110
Genestealers = 45 x 810
Spine Gaunts = 60 x 5 =300
 

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i never get a chance to shoot his wyches unless i crack the raiders they are in.
...Which is why I reccomend poison spore mines. They would be better vs the vehicles. You can buy Frag spore mines as well if you have the points and use whichever one is best for the target. I just prefer buying one set of ammo for my Biovore.

If you are concerned about the Raiders, then Venom Cannons on the Carnifex and at least one Tyrant is probably a good idea. You won't get anything better then a glancing hit anyway if he's speeding around the table.
 

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Originally posted by qwerter4@Nov 13 2003, 18:43
what i hear so far is "lots of spingaunts" and "biovores" i know that much, but what can i do about the incubi? thier powerweapons are quite powerful. Genestealers agianst them, thier iniative is 5 i think, they have T3. no invols. Genestealers would work agianst the HQ. eh? i can get around 45 genestealers to match his 20 model HQ unit, eh?
Do NOT use genestealers! These will never see close combat unless the DE player WANTS to meet them there (with wyches). All they do is to die.

You shouldn't worry too much about the incubi. They are marine killers, nothing else. I would NEVER field any incubi if i play against 'nids. Just swamp them with a gaunt horde and laugh, for you know that they will never get their points back (the incubi).

Compare them to marines: In a fight with cheap gaunts their only bonuses are the better initiative and that they have two attacks (and that they ignore the gaunts' 6+ armour save...oh how scary! ;)). Their disadvantages are that they are less tough than marines, and they cost 166% of what a marine costs.

From a gaunt horde's point of view they are way easier targets than equal points of normal marines.

jwu
 

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very right Archon! He has the advantage of choosing what he wants to assualt! i'll ditch the genestealers and get more spinegaunts! Has anyone ever tried taking the full amout of gaunts? 192 spine gaunts for 960 points! ahhh that sounds good, eh? give everyone hive node, +60 points, thats 1020, nice... that more cost efficent than the suggestion above, i could then take a few gargolyes to tie up anything shooty, hive tyrant with wings, some warriors with venom cannons in the heavy support slot to take care of annoying raiders and ravengers, and then the bio-vores, of course the main focus will be the gaunts! he cant kill 192 gaunts! Wyches will be swamped, the only diffrence between wyches and spine gaunts is that wyches have better save and Initiative, there's that stupid Ws half thing, but that really dosnet effect gaunts that much. he'll need 3s to hit i'll need 4s, so what? i'll overwhelm him!

what bio-morphs/bio-weapons should i give my warriors?
 
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