Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a discussion thread about how to use Dark Reapers with the current rules, post suggestions for the new codex in the appropriate pinned thread!

What's up with this?
I have a unit of Dark Reapers, but I have never been able to make them earn back their points. But anyway I see a lot of people who love these guys and never play a game without them, and as I want to master all units in the codex eventually I am very curious on how to use Dark Reapers successfully.
I know the basics; deploy them in cover and target heavy infantry. But what else? There must surely be a lot more exquisite tactics with this unit, and I want to uncover the key to their success. With this I am talking about stuff like deployment, LOS, army lists and unit configuration etc. I really want to be able to use the Dark Reapers, especially in my USF.

Oh, while we are on it, this should be about how to use Dark Reapers in different craftworlds as well; I play Ulthwé and USF and want to know how to use them there, but I don't want to focus on that but talk about how to use this unit in other craftworlds as well. Biel-tan springs to mind.

If you are one of the people who can use Dark Reapers successfully, please tell me and the forum how you do it. We surely need enlightenment in this area!

Everyone else with a valuable input should post here as well. :yes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
im not a massive fan of reapers but they go well with scorpions. if you infiltrate a couple of units of scorpions the reapers have a much better chance of survival as your opponant will have more immediate concerns! due to the armour save of the scorps then most will survive the firestorm anyway and then can get on with ripping things apart. obviously this costs a tonne of points but between the scorpions munching on anything in their path and the fire from the reapers you will be off to a flying start. really for a biel tan list, make sure some units are on their way to reinforce the scorps (banshees in a serpent spring to mind) unless you are happy with throwing over 400 pnts away....
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hmm? A feint, that's a pretty good idea. Some things I come to think about... enemy close combat specialists might lock the scorps in combat, and they are supposedly your Reapers' target right? Sure the scorps belong in combat, but still...
When it comes down to it, it's all about presenting scarier targets than the Reapers. So a Wave Serpent based Biel-tan army might be a good place for Reapers? They're even troops there, so HS slots are open for other things.

I've always prefered two War Walkers w. Star Cannons before 5 Dark Reapers, how can they compete with that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,263 Posts
i think a unit of reapers is not worth the points cus 9/10 times they are dead by turn 2 buuutt... before the gaming community got wise they use to be really effective stuck behind 2 defender units cus the enemy had to either cut through the defenders (whilst putting up with their fire as well) or take a ld test to fire at em
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
838 Posts
well against some opponents they can be quite useful. the last thing you want to do however is use them against a shooty army, they'll be annihilated very quickly.
i used to play beil-tan (i plan on restarting eldar whenever the new book is released) and my army looked something like:

jetbike farseer w/ singing spear

9 banshees in waveserpent
10 scorpions, exarch w/ claw, infiltrate
8 spiders
6 dragons (in falcon)
5 reapers +exarch upgrade w/fast shot and missile launcher

vyper w/ starcannon

wraithlord w/brightlance
standard 190pt falcon.

now i think this army is quite balanced, on a decent terrain covered table i had quite a lot of close range fire and cc ability as well as the vehicles providing enough firepower to kill a couple of tanks on the way in and provide ranged fire with the starcannons.

one of the main things i liked was the maneuverability of this army. however the reapers often provided a very decent static firebase, they'd unload a huge amount of fire into whatever i felt like and would do a very competent job against infantry and vehicles alike (fast shot on a BS5 missile launcher is amazing)

what i'd find worked well was to perch them in any cover that had good sight lines for the rest of the battlefield (cover is the no brainer here), but in every game i played the first thing going down on the table would be my wraithlord, he would be deployed in the open as far forward as possible. most people look at him as a much bigger threat than the dark reapers. This usually gives the reapers a bit more survivability. After the first turn, ie after the wraithlord died, the falcon would take over its job as fire magnet (as it has to move before becoming resilient its always deployed behind a hill or area terrain) but it'd be fast enough to be in the other players face while doing so, and probably dropping off some fire dragons to finish what the reapers started.

the target priority for the reapers was always worked out on the fly. it was just whatever happened to be the biggest threat at the time, or what needed to come down to give the rest of my army the advantage. sometimes a big MEQ squad, sometimes i'd forgo shooting the standard reapers to have a go at a tank.

i think the main reason that my reapers were so successful was the fact that they were one of the few ranged infantry units in my army. basically they were the only unit in my army that would provide a decent volume of fire; sure i have the occasional brightlance shot and a couple of starcannons (the falcon is a real powerhouse) but the reapers put out 8 marine killing shots and 2 krak missile shots a turn using their great BS. and they did it in a very fluffy way.

the main ideas here:
-always deploy in cover
-always use with a firemagnet
-don't worry about using the missile launcher and not letting the other reapers fire, its more important for your army to win than for any one unit to make its points back.

i've tried out different sized squads of reapers but i found this fully tooled up one to be the most effective.

IMO they're better than warwalkers mainly for survivability. warwalkers are open topped and can't be deployed in cover therefore i think are so much more fragile.
i think the reapers are more versatile too because of the missile launcher. the main disadvantage is not being able to move and fire.

however i don't think they're going to cut it in an ulthwe army but having never played ulthwe thats only a guess.
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Plague_00 said:
before the gaming community got wise they use to be really effective
Now that is so true, the first time I faced reapers I lost an entire marine squad on turn 1. :O

@TzarNikolai: Ah, as a fire support unit in a close combat army? Sounds very reasonable, but I can't see how a Wraithlord or Falcon could act a good fire magnet for an infantry squad... however scary it might be, you don't waste heavy bolter shots in order to take down a Wraithlord on turn 1. They attract different weapons... at least when it comes to games at a high level. The Scorpion idea was better, IMO, since they attract anti-infantry weapons.

And I think your suggestion for the best load-out looks good, the Exarch should be very worth it. Any suggestions on how to convert one?

(And hey, War Walkers can deploy in cover. Obscuring them, since they are vehicles. But I prefer walking around the sides of the terrain to limit LOS instead but that is another matter.)

@Everyone: I think we can all agree that they are best against non-shooty armies; their greatest weaknesses are fragility and lack of speed, and none of these matter against a close combat army. The same thing is true about War Walkers, even though they work good against balanced armies as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
Some things I come to think about... enemy close combat specialists might lock the scorps in combat, and they are supposedly your Reapers' target right? Sure the scorps belong in combat, but still...
well iv tested it a grand total of once and that was against tau. worked well then though. ok back on track i assume that reapers do better in aliactoc armies due to ranger disruption. anyone have experience here?
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
farmerralph said:
ok back on track i assume that reapers do better in aliactoc armies due to ranger disruption. anyone have experience here?
Well, that might just not be the case.

Distruption works only on un-mounted infantry units, and it is those who will have to arrive in reserve. Since these are the units the Dark Reapers are supposed to kill, the enemy will have one or two turns to kill them with their vehicles and stuff. Besides, Rangers especially and Path-finders can also take care of the infantry that the Dark Reapers are there to kill. There is also the issue with cover for everyone. Better to spend HS slots on Wraithlords. :sleep:

That's what I come to think of at the moment at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
true but some infantry may also start the battle pinned. in which case they are perfectly viable targets for the reapers. and if the rangers manage to get that devestator squad with 4 heavy bolters in reserve than its just gravy for the reapers. however there is overlap in the roles of reaper and ranger it is true, rangers are more useful for pinning purposes than the whole bangbang your dead thing. still i really should think before i post anything for flaws like that. at least reapers are more fluffy in alaitoc than wraithlords (though only just and yes i know im clutching at straws here...)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
well being an ulthwe and usf player i have had experince in this field

in my usf alyways i use reapers no matter what and i usually have a list that looks like this

2*2 reapers
exarch ML and fast shot

16 guardins, lance, warlock with conceal

16 guardins, lance, warlock with conceal and gate

seer council with gate

10 scrops
exarch claw
plasma and haywire

spear of khaine
2 warlocks w/ destructors
1 w/ enchance

2* 22 gaurdins scatter laser warlock conceal

1850

as you can see troop based and for the reaper tactics
set them in cover (given) but have them on oppistite sides of the table and as far away from the enemy as possible so you can hit every on the bored edge and los wont be a problem if one squad cant see the odds are the other sqaud can
thier range is the greatest defense why? you may ask well because all of the anti infantry weapons dont range 48inches those that due are anti tank which may kill per turn
in the usf the should shoot cc units like assult sqauds, fast movers like skimmers and transports and above all devs that will chew through your g-sqauds pinnig here is key becasue your outnumber 2 to 1 so you need to but time intill your gate open and when that happens you win

in an ulthwe army have something more vaulbe like an avatar running up the field or a wraithlod that are in front of them so they have to do target priority

well thats all i have for now i'll stop by later and help out
hope this help viktor
 

·
The Love Muffin
Joined
·
1,830 Posts
I love Dark Reapers.

But they rarely make it to the end of the game. I find they work well with a Wraithlord. Advance the Wraithlord slightly in the DarkReaper's LoS. Now your enemy has to make a choice. Do they...

A) Shoot at the Reapers and let this MC advance towards me?

or

B) Do they shoot at the Wraithlord, which can take an impressive amount of fire) and let the Dark Reapers fire willingly?
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hmm yes, that is intresting. You have to use their fancy range to keep them alive, and the Exarch is worth it obviously.

However, what's up with your opponents? Who in their right mind would waste anti-infantry weapons on a Wraithlord instead of Dark Reapers? Certainly not the people I play against. But the LOS business is fairly intresting, too bad we Eldar don't have any LOS blocking tanks... this is a good thread, keep it up!

@mikes5420: Why do you have a heavy weapon platform in your Guardian squad with Wraithgate? You do know they can't fleet of foot then? And also, it looks there like you have only 4 units out in the gate and five on the table. You have to keep at least half in reserve. :|
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,768 Posts
I think an on topic issue is the dark reapers vs warwalkers one. Which performs better? Their bother fragile and powerful but warwalkers can smash terminators and equivelents while I think reapers might be better against hordes with their eldar missile launcher and can also take out medium tanks. War walkers are harder to conceal obviously because of their size and if everyone knows they have 14 starcannons, they'll be a higher priority than anything else. What I would really like to know is the statistics of them against various units.

Against Terminators, Marines, Guardsmen, and Rhinos. Kudos to anyone that figures this out. Obviously, in ulthwe strike force, the warwalkers would perform better than in other craftworlds but I think they become more expensive too.

I'll divide them up into relitevly equal points:

3x 5 dark reapers
3x exarch
3x eldar missile launcher
3x fast shot
= 699 points.

7x Warwalker
14x starcannon
= 700 points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,263 Posts
A) Shoot at the Reapers and let this MC advance towards me?

or

B) Do they shoot at the Wraithlord, which can take an impressive amount of fire) and let the Dark Reapers fire willingly?

personally i would heavy b the reapers but first i'd exorcist the wl there goes ur battle plan and 2 reasonably powerful units
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
838 Posts
Plague_00 said:
personally i would heavy b the reapers but first i'd exorcist the wl there goes ur battle plan and 2 reasonably powerful units
as i said i don't expect the wraithlord to survive first turn.

its just from personal experience most enemies i fight have only short ranged anti horde weapons, all the long ranged fire is as many plasma cannons/lascannons that can be crammed in. one thing that does screw me over seriously is assault cannon/heavy bolter landspeeders. why do marines need something that fast?
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Tenozuma said:
I think an on topic issue is the dark reapers vs warwalkers one. Which performs better? Their bother fragile and powerful but warwalkers can smash terminators and equivelents while I think reapers might be better against hordes with their eldar missile launcher and can also take out medium tanks. War walkers are harder to conceal obviously because of their size and if everyone knows they have 14 starcannons, they'll be a higher priority than anything else. What I would really like to know is the statistics of them against various units.
I'm not really a fan of statistics, they cannot give you all the data you need to say which one is better. There are just SO many factors; terrain, opponents army, your army, mission, blast weapon coverage and countless other things that makes it impossible to use statistics in a good way. Sure you can tell how dangerous a unit is against common units, but that's about it. Let's see here...

5 Dark Reapers and 2 War Walkers shoot at a squad of space marines each, no cover.

Dark Reapers: 10 shots, 6.6 hits, 4.35 dead marines.

War Walkers: 12 shots, 6 hits, 5 dead marines.

But just how often will the enemy line up a sweet target like this when you use a unit that excels in killing them? And what about firing back?

War Walkers can move and shoot, this means that you can manouvre around size 3 terrain and keep in LOS from as few enemies as possible. The Dark Reapers have to stand in cover overlooking most of the board during the whole game to survive and get good targets, this traps them and makes them an easy target since they can't limit LOS like the Walkers.

Reapers can have an Exarch with ML... this gives them an edge against medium vehicles, but War Walkers are naturally good against AV 10-12 vehicles, as well as they can take down terminators and other 2+ save units like most Tyranid monsters out there.

When it comes to vulnerability, Dark Reapers will die easily from heavy bolters, bolters, and all other anti-infantry weapons out there. War Walkers are of course in danger of Lascannons and such, but on the other hand are small arms fairly ineffective against them. Let's not forget that if you score a glancing hit, only in 1/3 of the cases will the Walker go down. It may lose a weapon, mobility or be stunned for a turn but it can still keep going. If a reaper is dead, it is dead.

However, the Reapers have better range and can be positioned way back on the table. But this is only effective in games where you play from opposing table quarters, in other games it will be a waste since there's only 24" or something between the deployment zones. :(

Can somebody give me reason enough to use Reapers instead of War Walkers?

Plague_00 said:
personally i would heavy b the reapers but first i'd exorcist the wl there goes ur battle plan and 2 reasonably powerful units
Now that's a valuable input, thanks a lot.:sleep:
 

·
The Fallen
Joined
·
7,745 Posts
Viktor, I agree with you that stistics alone dont cut it, particularly for Eldar.

I have said ti before and I will again, I dont like reapers, 2 reasons:

1. Colour scheme
2. too static

But neither of those should prevent others using them.

Clearly any Eldar commander worth his salt integrates his army and learns to orchistrate its different faccets.

But your latest Q is reapers or walkers, here is my answer:

1. it depends on the rest of your army, if your entire army comprises foot sloggers - say loads of scorps and spiders, then reapers are a good choice, they place preasure on your opponent to target either the advancing sudden doom or the nastyness that is reapers, using walkers would make it clearer for him, as Plague said, anti tank stuff would take out walkers, anti inf would go for the inf). The converse is not neccessarily true, if you use a mech army, with say banshees in serpents zooming up the field, anti tank stuff will be focussed on the serpents, anti inf like heavy bolters would be focussed on either reapers or walkers

2.What are you trying to achieve, for my money there aint that much difference in terms of killign power VS inf between reapers and walkers, but if you are hoping they will either draw fire or kill on mass, then again I would opt for reapers, a squad Feels inherantly more resiliant than a light walker

3. Manouverability - for a manouverable army, walkers seem to make more sense, note this doesnt mean Saim Hann where both are just tooo slow, but mobile eldar armies period

4. And this is THE most important point - play with what you are familiar with
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cheredanine said:
2.What are you trying to achieve, for my money there aint that much difference in terms of killign power VS inf between reapers and walkers, but if you are hoping they will either draw fire or kill on mass, then again I would opt for reapers, a squad Feels inherantly more resiliant than a light walker
I simply want to be able to use my Dark Reapers in a decent way, maybe I just need more experience with them. Without variation an army gets boring after a while.

I just can't seem to keep them from dying without achieving anything. Dying instead of my Guardians isn't much of an achievement, though I bet the Guardians are happy with it.

[Thinks aloud]I don't really agree that Reapers are less fragile than Walkers, for infantry the Reapers are notoriously weak, and for vehicles are Walkers notoriously weak. However, for being infantry, Walkers are notoriously tough. It sounds strange, but it makes sense in a way. If you use a lot of vehicles, Walkers will be regarded as the lightest and therefore the only useful target for anti-infantry weapons, which they will have a good chance of surviving while the stronger weapons are required for taking down the AV 12 vehicles you have. So I guess War Walkers are best for Mechanized armies, like Biel-tan or Iyanden lists. This is just an extension of what you said though.

Ouch, this whole thing is starting to give me a headache. But I just love the theory behind this game.

Reaper squad: x5 t(you know) (you know)+ save models
War Walker squad: x2 AV(you know) open-topped vehicles

I think the Reapers feel more fragile since they will be in LOS of more firepower, and they are prime targets of anti-infantry weapons as well. Those are likely to hit some and wound some, making it a reliable way to kill them. Heavy 1 weapons fired at your Walkers might miss and that's the end of the story for that turn, lucky breaks are not as usual with Heavy 3 weapons.[/Thinks aloud]

Note to self:Unbalanced armies have a natural advantage against balanced armies, so if you use a lot of infantry take Reapers and if you use a lot of vehicles take War Walkers.

Colour scheme isn't really a problem, you can paint models however you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I use my Dark Reapers for a variety of things-

Transport Shredders- I first roll the exarch's fire at a DEDICATED TRANSPORT, hopefully blow it up, and roll for the others against the occupants. Not sure if this works, but for a dedicated transport i think i does.

Try me!- post them in some cover in a fire lane. laugh if anything AV 12 or under or troops with anything other than a 2+ save marches down that isle. Have an anti-tank unit hiding near the fire lane, perhaps some infiltratin scorps with haywires. Now, if it's a clear fire lane, with some nice cover shielding it from the other half, send your fragile skimmers down it. Your vypers, and waveserpents will love this. With some resilient units on the other half, i have actually trapped all 2000 points of my brother's space marines in a 4' x 2' section in the middle left half of a 6 x 4 table, by turn 3. (fragile things moved 24" 24" 12" + fire + disembark)
 

·
Drills baby.
Joined
·
6,481 Posts
farseer_seele said:
Transport Shredders- I first roll the exarch's fire at a DEDICATED TRANSPORT, hopefully blow it up, and roll for the others against the occupants. Not sure if this works, but for a dedicated transport i think i does.
The normal reapers can't fire at a diffrent target then the Exarch.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top