[Sile]

How do you guys deal with AV 14 vehicles, whether it be a Land Raider or a Monolith.

Lances or a prism shot?

Crap ton of shots? Seer council?

 

[the_pariah7]

Ooh... I would also add, how do you deal with the monolith as it renders lances near useless? Against a land raider, lances are good enough since it gives you 4+ rolls. The monolith, not so.

If I were you, I'd opt for weaponry that uses a fixed dice score to penetrate/glance (against the monolith). If you can get close enough without being killed, haywire 'nades work surprisingly well (if you can get close enough in the first place). D-cannon is similar but you run the risk of being hit by the particle whip as soon as you get in range. If possible (I don't know because I don't play as Eldar), send a cheap, suicidal jetbike squad with haywires (if possible) and speed away, unless you can't do this. Then either try with a ton of S8/9 shots or ignore it. Often, if you try with the ton of shots, you're playing into the necron's hands. Simply because the monolith has drawn all those nasty S8+ shots from the rest of the army, allowing it to advance mostly unmolested. All I can say is that its never easy to take down a monolith, unless the dice gods favour you and grant you lucky dice at the hour of need.

Land raiders... as I said before, lances should do the trick. Feel free to throw in melta equivalents but I wouldn't insist on it.

 

[realitycheque]

Against a Necron Monolith (especially against multiple monoliths), ignore it and concentrate on Phase Out.

Everything else, bright lances.

 

[Inian]

The preferred way to take down Land Raiders is with either a focused and linked Fire Prism shot (S10 AP1), or the classic Fire Dragons, this even works against those pesky Black Templar Land Raiders that ignore the lance rule.

The Monolith is a bit more difficult, but the linked prisms work well there too, Haywires(Hawks) can work but often die before reaching the target, Vibro Cannons can also work but are rarely used/owned/useful. D-weaponry is quite effective too, so a unit of Wraithguard is fairly effective. The Wraithlord has S10 and can also get through that pesky Monolith armour, but has difficulties hitting it (Wraithshord mitigates this somewhat.). Fire Dragons are not that effective, they glance on 6's and have a 1/6 chance of destroying the Monolith once they glance, so in essence a 1/36 chance of destroying it for each hit.

The most versatile and safe option is the Fire Prism in both cases, with Fire Dragons being very effective against the Land Raiders but vulnerable once they have done their job.

 

[alvenom]

Against a Necron Monolith (especially against multiple monoliths), ignore it and concentrate on Phase Out.

Everything else, bright lances.

That's about the best plan. A squad of Fire Dragons with a Fire Pike Exarch should do the trick, too.

 

[Archon Charybdis]

If possible (I don't know because I don't play as Eldar), send a cheap, suicidal jetbike squad with haywires (if possible) and speed away, unless you can't do this.

Haywire Grenades are a special rule specifically for Swooping Hawks. They're the only unit that has them, and a lot of players don't find them worth the time.

Vibro Cannons can also work but are rarely used/owned/useful. D-weaponry is quite effective too, so a unit of Wraithguard is fairly effective. The Wraithlord has S10 and can also get through that pesky Monolith armour, but has difficulties hitting it (Wraithshord mitigates this somewhat.)

D-cannons are definitely the most effective (if not always practical) means of dealing with a Monolith. Vibrocannons though almost literally can't do anything to it though. As a glancing AP nil shot you're most likely to shake it which just means it'll fire the Particle Whip instead. If you get really lucky you can get a weapon destroyed and reduce the shots off the Flux Projector by 1. Wraithlords though with 3 S10 attacks on the charge (4 to hit at worst) has decent odds.

A squad of Fire Dragons with a Fire Pike Exarch should do the trick, too.

With it's special rules (and depending on how curmudgeonly your opponent feels like being) a Monolith either practically can't or even literally can't be destroyed by glancing hits. You'd have to deliver a total of 8 weapon destroyed/immobilized results before it goes down due to the damn flux arc projector, and I've seen people be douchey enough to argue because the particle whip can't be destroyed neither can the Monolith. All that said, Dragons are still pretty good for destroyer or spyder hunting.

On a general note though, Lances are really not that great at killing armor 14. Certainly they're more dangerous than a regular S8 weapon, but assuming BS4 (which is not common on most units that can take a BL) it takes over 13 shots to inflict an actual destroyed result. Granted, sometimes stunned, weapon destroyed, or immobilized is just as good-- but from a pure killing standpoint, lances are really inefficient points wise. If they were priced more like they are for Dark Eldar they might be viable. As it stands now however, the Lance is really not worth it in an Eldar army.

 

[Arkanor]

Let's take a look at a few options, depending on your situation they will be more or less useful

Brightlance
+Decent range
+Can deal with any AV 12+ equally
-1 shot only
-AP2
-Expensive

Fire Dragons
+More or less a guaranteed kill
+Can assault multiple vehicles with melta bombs
-Very little range

Avatar
+Melta shot at BS5
+6+2D6 penetration in assault
+Tough to kill
-Slow

Wraithlord
+Wraithblade option makes it more reliable at hitting moving vehicles
+(10+2D6) penetration all but guarantees getting through AV14, 10+D6 is still good (monolith)
+Tough as nails
-Slow
-Heavy Support slot

Fire Prism
+Longest range of any weapon
+Can fire as a lascannon or link to fire as a railgun
+Usually very accurate (especially linked)
-2 tanks to produce 1 Railgun shot
-High-threat platform (people will target this)

Wraithcannon
+Can penetrate anything
+Good against troops
-1 shot
-Expensive
-Very short range

D-Cannon
-It's on an Eldar artillery team, nuff said

EML
+Multiple firing modes including AP4 frag shot
+full missile range
-It's more or less just a krak missile.

 

[the_pariah7]

With it's special rules (and depending on how curmudgeonly your opponent feels like being) a Monolith either practically can't or even literally can't be destroyed by glancing hits. You'd have to deliver a total of 8 weapon destroyed/immobilized results before it goes down due to the damn flux arc projector, and I've seen people be douchey enough to argue because the particle whip can't be destroyed neither can the Monolith. All that said, Dragons are still pretty good for destroyer or spyder hunting.

Just so you can argue it logically, the monolith should go down after 1 immobilised result and 7 weapons destroyed results. Immobilised is obvious. Since gauss flux arc is D6, you can't really use it if you have a modifier of -6. And of course, the 7th one should be the one that brings it down. Why you might ask? Because the particle whip is a function of the power matrix and therefore does not count as a weapon. Don't let the little poopies push you around by insisting that it can't be destroyed this way.

 

[Archon Charybdis]

Just so you can argue it logically, the monolith should go down after 1 immobilised result and 7 weapons destroyed results. Immobilised is obvious. Since gauss flux arc is D6, you can't really use it if you have a modifier of -6. And of course, the 7th one should be the one that brings it down. Why you might ask? Because the particle whip is a function of the power matrix and therefore does not count as a weapon. Don't let the little poopies push you around by insisting that it can't be destroyed this way.

Oh I totally agree, but some people are just that cantankerous and insist their monolith has to be indestructible. Either way, it's kind of moot as your dragons aren't likely to survive long enough to inflict that many glancing hits

 

[Dire]

No. They'd blast it back to hell with Melta Bombs by that time five times and over.

 

[Archon Charybdis]

No. They'd blast it back to hell with Melta Bombs by that time five times and over.

I assume you play under the assumption that melta bombs aren't affected by Living Metal because they have 2d6 by default, as opposed to as "extra dice." If so, more power to you, but in my area and in most rules discussions I've seen on it people have come down firmly on the side of nothing ever rolls 2d6 against a Monolith.

 

[the_pariah7]

You never get the extra +D6 against the monolith. It's always S +D6, regardless. Although there are some bonuses that may be counted. But the melta will only ever glance on 6s.

 

[Archon Charybdis]

You never get the extra +D6 against the monolith. It's always S +D6, regardless. Although there are some bonuses that may be counted. But the melta will only ever glance on 6s.

Some people argue that because melta bombs have a listed strength of" 8+2D6" (i.e. they always roll 2d6 regardless of the circumstances) it doesn't qualify under the "extra dice" clause of the Living Metal rule, and therefore doesn't get reduced. That argument doesn't really hold weight, but it exists.

 

[the_pariah7]

Ah but if they bothered to read the living metal rule listed in the monolith's entry, it specifically mentions, along with other weapons/rules, that melta weapons do not get the extra dice when attacking the monolith and it will always roll a single D6. A melta bomb uses the melta rule and therefore must conform with the living metal rule. And I agree, its an extremely weak argument to claim that it is exempt from the rule.

 

[Archon Charybdis]

Ah but if they bothered to read the living metal rule listed in the monolith's entry, it specifically mentions, along with other weapons/rules, that melta weapons do not get the extra dice when attacking the monolith and it will always roll a single D6. A melta bomb uses the melta rule and therefore must conform with the living metal rule. And I agree, its an extremely weak argument to claim that it is exempt from the rule.

Melta bombs do not use the melta rule, they aren't shooting weapons-- and how does a close combat attack get within half range? They're just a grenade with a strength of 8+2D6 against vehicles. Regardless, I think the intent of the Living Metal rule is pretty clear, and if anybody wants to argue otherwise it's a Necron players prerogative to dreadsock them.

 

[akaean]

don't forget council variants for dealing with av14.

a Farseer and a bunch of warlocks (especially on bikes) hit any vehicle like a ton of bricks on the charge. As witchblades and singing spears are always s9 against vehicles, and fortune gives them rerolling 3+ armor, or 4+ invuln or 3+ cover (turbo boosting) they soak up fire, and a charge is the equivalent of shooting 10+ lascannons at something... that'll probably knock down a mono or a landraider without much trouble.

Fire prism's linking thier shots for s10 ap1 is also a good way to make av14 cringe.

I'm sure they'll reduce bright lance points when we get redone... but I like mine... they are really accurate on waveserpents, and are solid for dealing with MCs, especially t7 2+ carnifexes...

 

[eris]

some percentages for you with regards to killing AV14 landraiders.
these are the % chance for the model (not unit!) to kill it (wreck or destroy) with a round of shooting.

Fire Dragon Exarch - 27.8%
Fire Dragon w/ Fire Pike - 22.2%
Autarch w/ Fusion Gun - 16.2%
Avatar - 16.2%
Storm Guardian w/ Fusion Gun - 14.6%
Fire Prism (2 linked) - 14.1%
Shining Spear Exarch - 13.9%
War Walker w/ 2 Bright Lances - 10.9%
waveserpent t/l brightlance - 8.3%
Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance - 7.6%
Wraithguard - 7.4%
Viper w/ Bright Lance - 5.6%
Farseer w/ Singing Spear - 4.6%
Warlock w/ Singing Spear - 3.7%
Fire Prism - 3.4%

as you can see the melta's come out tops by quite a way. a couple of surprises (for me at least) were how well storm guardians did comparatively and the fact that a shining spear exarch appeared on the list at all heh.

it was also eye opening to see how badly the council does on an individual basis, tho their main benefit is that you'll be getting alot of shots from the unit (same for wraithguard who are pretty unimpressive on their own). The council's main strength for armour killing is in the assault tho and i havent done the maths there yet. the pure volume of s9 hits from them on the charge will kill pretty much anything.

single prisms on their own arent worth shooting at AV14 at all, linked they're alot better, but perform worse than a single melta guardian. VS monoliths however they are youre best bet, which for me just re-inforces that you should ignore the monolith and kill everything else.