[Wildchevy]

Dear Santa,
I would like to see good days and competitiveness for my Grey Knights if they get redone here in the near future, if you have any sway could you pass these on to GW:
1. Updated special rules. Something like assaulting after deep strike would be lovely. Also rules that help against the Demon codex would be a nice touch too.
2. Some new psychic powers; this goes along with what is stated about the Demon codex.
3. A nice change in the armory section. C’mon who wouldn’t love a 3+ invul saving storm shield.
4. Another HQ option would be lovely. Purely fluff but a lightning claw librarian would make for a better HQ slot choice in a small points game compared to the one wound Brother Captain.
5. For my basic GK I would like them to have a points drop just to help give them a better fighting chance.
6. On the topic of points, readjusting the cost of a Rhino and Chimera to their IG and SM counterparts.
7. Give us a drop pod!! Again, this comes from the fluff.
8. Let us use a Valkyrie as a troop transport. Its not exactly a Thunderhawk but it gets the job done.
9. Some more attacks in CC would make a good bit of difference when facing the enemies of the Emperor.
10. Lastly some anti armor. MEQ is the way of 5th edition and the psycannons on troops don’t cut the mustard.

Thanks Santa,
Wildchevy



This may just seem like wishful thinking but I am having such a hard time making a dent in local tourneys against 10+ year vets. I would just like to see the Grey Knight’s motto change from “outmanned and outgunned.”

 

[Mal]

To be honest you are only suppose to fight Deamons....

 

[Saint102]

well fluff wise thats not true they are ment to fight chaos as interpreted by the hier ups which means if an inquisitor think that elder magic is to chaos warp like he can use the grey knights. they just specialize in daemons but often face other things.

 

[Mal]

They really aren't. They are to fight massive Chaos incursions, Alpha level possessed psychers and the the such. Gribbly Chaos things the High Lords reckon not even normal Space Marines should have to face.

But I know a lot of players like playing against anything, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play other things, but they were designed to fight Deamons, ergo their lack of anti armour weaponry, high point cost (they are but one chapter!). Now that there are new Deamons the rules do need an update.

 

[Kelter Skelter]

So you're saying GW has created an army that can only be played against an army that only has half of a codex?

 

[Mal]

Not exactly. But the fluff and balanced armies tend to favour my hypothesis. Which is all it is, an opinion or an idea. I've gunned down many a Min-Max Grey Knight army with a mass infantry IG army or Tactical Squad centric SM army.

 

[AtlantianWarrior]

7. Give us a drop pod!! Again, this comes from the fluff.

Were in the fluff do we drop pod in?

 

[winginson]

Were in the fluff do we drop pod in?

In the book Grey Knights by Ben Coulter they use drop pods twice:

[SPOILERS]
The first time they attack Gargatuloths planet a 1000 thoisand years before the main story, and once when Justicar Alaric runs the blockade to stop Gargatuloth coming back
[END SPOILERS]

Although this is Black Library, there isn't much other fluff about. Although If they did redo the codex it would be so cool to have a plastic thunderhawk.

If they redo it I want our force weapons to still instant kill daemons that are immune to instant death. Seeing as although you could have five if you wanted, filling your elites with force weapon inquisitors is not a good idea.

I think all force weapons should of been kept away from instant death, as they are so rare they should have some pretty hefty advantages. So many multi wound characters have Eternal Warrior or some such these days so there is usually little point in taking them at all. I don't mind a fancy expensive HQ not being Instant Killed by a stray battle cannon shot, as otherwise they would be used. But if you are stupid enough to charge said HQ into force weapon wielding unit, it should be allowed to be insta-gibbed.

Also Brother-Captains and Grand Masters should at least be brought up the the level of Space Marine Captains and Chapter Masters.

 

[Mal]

Also Brother-Captains and Grand Masters should at least be brought up the the level of Space Marine Captains and Chapter Masters.

Definitely, they are meant to be the Elite of the Elite.


I think Eternal Warrior is sort of a catchment for characters blessed by Fate and those with incredible willpower. So Force Weapons should be a challange for the latter, as you are willing the enemy to death via psychic powers. But definitely you should be slaying foul deamons with them! That is what you guys are meant to do after all.

 

[ikbuh]

Grey Knights should not get Drop Pods they should be able to Deepstrike as troops. Half come in turn one, half are rolled. That would be more fluffy (though I'm reading that book now and it's pretty BA) and as for Valks, they really don't use them as even the ISTs drop in via Thunder Hawk, but that's not saying you shouldn't be able to induct them as those are normal IG.

Personally I would like to see a definitive line between ISTs and IGSTs, something that really sets them apart as well as a big hitting AV weapon. Lets face it, PCs are good, but not good enough to take out some of the fluff daemons, hell anything with Iron Hide still gets a save. Some sort of holy lasacannon or something would be cool.

Purifier
S8 AP1 24" Heavy 1, 12" assault 1
Ignores Invul

Something like that, similar to the MM, but different. It doesn't have the Melta Rule because it's meant for killing big daemons, but it can still punch a tank. Perhaps give it an extra shot, but I think that would be overkill. Maybe Heavy 2, assault 1.

 

[Mal]

Nice concept, but why would Grey Knights need to kill a tank?

That is what conscripted guard are for! To eliminate / be cannon fodder to the forces the deamon incursion was caused by or has turned to the ruinous powers!

 

[AtlantianWarrior]

In the book Grey Knights by Ben Coulter they use drop pods twice:

Which is counter to fluff. They teleport in and then teleport out or go in and out via Thunderhawks. It read like the Ben Coulter did not read the codex and made up what he wanted. Over all no big deal. I agree with ikbuh whey should be able to deep strike in.
----------

Nice concept, but why would Grey Knights need to kill a tank?

Maybe a daemon possessed it *shrugs*

 

[Mal]

Maybe a daemon possessed it *shrugs*

Their used to be rules for that!

 

[Kelter Skelter]

Not exactly. But the fluff and balanced armies tend to favour my hypothesis. Which is all it is, an opinion or an idea. I've gunned down many a Min-Max Grey Knight army with a mass infantry IG army or Tactical Squad centric SM army.

I might suspect that's because one codex is the 2nd newest codex out there and the other is one of the oldest.

Also just because you're best at fighting one thing doesn't mean you'll never fight another. Is a defiler or soulgrinder not a tank?

 

[Mal]

I've not used the new IG codex list yet! I am not saying the Gray Knights should not have a re-write or shouldn't play other armies, they are part of the Ordo Malleus and can call upon its other forces for tackling non-deamonic foes while the ideally strike at the true force, focus and foe in the form of the deamons.

 

[Kelter Skelter]

I've never read any DH books but, I guess from that I'll assume they only fight warp spawn.

 

[ikbuh]

I've never read any DH books but, I guess from that I'll assume they only fight warp spawn.

No, they fight anything the Ordo Malleus tells them to fight, which is pretty much anything tainted by Chaos. It's just that usually ISTs can handle most petty things and Grey Knights are called in when things get bad.

What if a Chapter Master gets corrupted/Possessed? Anything the Ordo Malleus could requisition would get wiped out (fluffwise of course) fighting a whole chapter of marines (lets face it, you call out the master, everyone's in). That's where the Knights would come in. They would teleport into room where the chaptermaster is sitting and get it done, nice and quick.

That's just an example, for more just go into the back your codex and read the "Daemonhunters would fight x because" section xD

As for

Nice concept, but why would Grey Knights need to kill a tank?

It's not intended for killing tanks, just big nasty daemons. The fact that it can punch a tank is an added benefit. Mal is right, Soul Grinders are vehicles and the only thing in a Pure GK army that can Hurt AV 13 (front of a SG) is on a Land Raider.

Also, conscripted men would be 100% ineffectual against any major threat. Their minds would just break. GKs and ISTs are specifically trained to withstand things that you couldn't possibly comprehend. Besides, Daemonhunters shouldn't have to rely on another codex to be good. Fluffwise they're the best of the best, yet in the game they need an outside source?

What the Grey Knights need is Anti-Tank and reliable delivery.
Something like the Purifier Cannon I mentioned above and a rule similar to Daemons/DropPod assault to get our troops in safely via teleport.

 

[Oiad]

Hey ikbuh, I like your ideas on the Purifier Cannon et al and posted the responses in your own topic.

Other good points that have been brought up - I'd like to see many of the non-mech GK units be brough down by about 2-5 points too. Not by too much. As the GK units are mean't to be highly-specialised and to have more than that taken away would mean the abolishtion of say, the special rules to make up for it.

My wishes?:Well, I;d just like to see a new codex out first foresmost to sort the mess out which has Daemon and DH players arguing over the rules.

I guess I'd like to see abilities that enable our Inquisitors to become decent assault units, or at least as good as the WH Inq. They can start by finally allowing the crusader option for the warrior retinues to be equipped with WS4, PW and pistols in a similar manner.

I'd like to see the GM's and BC's be brought into line stat-wise with the new Chapter Master stats too. Two wounds should be made a standard with the BC with a WS=6 and BS=5. A GM should have a WS=6or7, BS=5.

Not a fan of the Librarian HQ posted earlier as all GK HQ's are kinda combination of a FC and Lib anyway.

I would also like to see a GM Special Character of some sort, maybe 250pts-270pts. We have two Inq (Cortez + Rex) ad Stern is still quite reliable. I had ideas for one a few years ago but looking back, the rules seem naive and silly. Maybe I should re-write them and post it here later.

 

[winginson]

Definatly should have 2 wound Brother-Captains and higher weapon skill. And one important addition. Our HQs should have Eternal Warrior.

 

[Darthvegeta800]

Nice concept, but why would Grey Knights need to kill a tank?

That is what conscripted guard are for! To eliminate / be cannon fodder to the forces the deamon incursion was caused by or has turned to the ruinous powers!

Actually in a lot of places they need to intervene - IG will be lost. (Daemonworlds for one)
A GK should be able to have something to shoot at the huge daemons, big creatures, mutated machines etc.
GK fight Chaos Marines too on some Daemonworlds etc. Daemons can be aided by traitors, Marines, cultists etc. So they should be able to handle 'traditional' opponents to a degree also.
It's not as clearcut as... we fight Daemons and only Daemons at every moment of the battle.
Heck the codex itself says an Avatar of the Eldar for instance can be targetted - hence they'll fight Eldar. But also other factions are faced according to the codex depending on the situation. Though usually the intervention is related to Chaos or suspicions regarding an artefact or Chaos Threat.