[Weaf]

In my last game, I shot a unit of Repentia and wanted to pin them with the Deceiver's Dread (I think that's what it's called). They're normally fearless, which is overruled by the big D, but they also get to make a fall back move towards any enemy that has done enough damage in the shooting phase.
We didn't know if I could pin the unit, thus overriding the fall back move. We rolled it off to save debate, but I need some input here. I think pinning a unit that normally cannot be pinned should take precedence over the fall back move. What do you think?

Weaf

 

[kore]

In my last game, I shot a unit of Repentia and wanted to pin them with the Deceiver's Dread (I think that's what it's called). They're normally fearless, which is overruled by the big D, but they also get to make a fall back move towards any enemy that has done enough damage in the shooting phase.
We didn't know if I could pin the unit, thus overriding the fall back move. We rolled it off to save debate, but I need some input here. I think pinning a unit that normally cannot be pinned should take precedence over the fall back move. What do you think?

Weaf

The Deceiver ability you're referring to is "Deceive".

Anyhow, let's disect this scenario:

Sisters Repentia aren't Fearless as far as I can tell. Their rules say that in close combat they automatically pass any Morale checks. This leaves them open to failing Morale checks from shooting only. Since you shot at them in your scenario, they were not Fearless or the like and thusly would have to pass a Morale check. Upon failing the Morale check they make a Fall Back move towards the nearest enemy unit with the potential of counting as charging into combat on the following owner's turn.

However, the rule, Righteous Zeal, says the Fall Back move takes place at the end of the enemy's (your) Shooting phase. Deceive takes place during your Shooting phase and thusly precedes the Fall Back move. If the Pinning is successful, the rules on page 32 of the BGB state that a unit "may not move, shoot, assault, or make any other actions in its following turn."

One could argue that the Fall Back move is taking place in your turn and not the owner's "following turn". But there is no written prescription for this specific scenario and from the description and name of their condition, "being pinned", they shouldn't make the Fall Back move.

 

[Alzer]

Actually that ability IS dread, deceive effects redeployment of the Necron army. Dread doesn't work on fearless units, so if repentia are fearless it wouldn't effect them at all. However if as Kore is saying they pass all leadership in melee dread would still be able to pin them. If you decide to use dread to cause pinning the opponent does not get to choose a fall back instead if they fail the moral check the unit is pinned.

 

[Weaf]

Actually that ability IS dread, deceive effects redeployment of the Necron army. Dread doesn't work on fearless units, so if repentia are fearless it wouldn't effect them at all. However if as Kore is saying they pass all leadership in melee dread would still be able to pin them. If you decide to use dread to cause pinning the opponent does not get to choose a fall back instead if they fail the moral check the unit is pinned.

You've gone and made me look at the Codex. What fun is that? Kore's right. Deceive is the one that forces a pinning or morale check, and it works even on fearless units. Dread is the one that forces a morale check on a unit you're about to assault and does not work on fearless models. Grand Illusion is the deployment one, and Misdirect is the jump out of assault ability.

 

[kore]

Actually that ability IS dread, deceive effects redeployment of the Necron army. Dread doesn't work on fearless units, so if repentia are fearless it wouldn't effect them at all. However if as Kore is saying they pass all leadership in melee dread would still be able to pin them. If you decide to use dread to cause pinning the opponent does not get to choose a fall back instead if they fail the moral check the unit is pinned.

As Weaf has pointed out, I've made the proper correction to what ability he was referring to when I responded in my first post.

Deceive - Pinning/Fall Back
Grand Illusion - Redeploy
Dread - Prevent Assault
Misdirect - Leave Combat

Edit: I guess I should have scrolled to see that Weaf responded. Duely noted.

 

[sturk]

Wow! Pinning - one more reason why you shouldn't bring Repentia.