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What are some of the significant differences between loyalist and chaos space marines? Chaos has a much larger armory and almost everything has access to veteran skills (Without using a trait system or changing around FOC slots.) Where does Chaos really excel over loyalists?
 

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Slave to the flesh
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Chaos can do just about everything the loyalists can and then some. They have more units, harder CC, higher LD and a larger armoury.

The big difference is "and they shall know no fear" (which is the best rule in the game),otherwise chaos are better.
 

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Spiky
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Close combat.

CCW and Bolt Pistol instead of bolters is an great advantage. Also, the marks of chaos provide 4/5 army with CC upgrades : Nurgle allows +1 attack with a bolter, Slaanesh give -1 initiative and assault weaponry, Khorne is the god of CC and Undivided provide you with the I can reroll my LD test, which means that you'll last longer in CC. The only exception is tzeentch, unless you consider that the extensive use of terminators and the +1 wound is a close combat advantage (i do).
 

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In my experience from the Escalation League thus far (4/5ths of my opponents are some form of space marine, I kid you not), I can tell you this much:

Chaos doesn't start building every army around two missle-toting tac-squads (or a missle-toting tac-squad and a sniper/missle-toting scout squad for variety) and a chaplain-led 5-man assault squad with a power-fisted vet sgt.

That is to say, we have some more room for originality and variety, which the loyalists seem to lack ;)
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Additional advantages to Chaos:
1- Access to obliterators
2- better h.q. options (both h.q. options and a.c. options are more like a template system, where upgrades can be purchased and in some cases stacked. A player can tweak almost any stat on a chaos lord by at least 2 and in some cases as much as 5.
3- There are significant different model and weapon options for each of the chaos armies.

Additional disadvantages to Chaos:
1- The base chaos marine is not fearless
2- No assault cannons
3- No landspeeders
 

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Spiky
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But we have a Defiler, A Chaos Dreadnought that can go crazy, and cool vehicle upgrades.
 

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The only other thing that the loyalists have that we don't have are heroes. You may not like them, but I think we need more. If anything just for their fluff value. I mean every SM chapter has at least one hero. Some have 3! We don't even have a model for Lucius... No Honsu for the IW, no Kor Phareon for the WB... This is something I've been ranting about for awhile. At least giv eus 1 per legion...
 

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Here are just some quick things I can think up off the top of my head -

Advantages of Chaos over Loyalist -
*Autocannons in our Havoc Squads.
*Veteran Skills that don't require a form of disadvantage trait.
*The FO slot reorganization rules for marks.
*Obliterators and Daemons are potent units.
*Access to the MoCU, which is sometimes considered to be better than fearless.
*Bikers can come in larger unit sizes making them more survivable.
*Raptors > Assault Squads.
*Defilers.
*HQ choices are more varied, allowing custom tuning to make a choice you're comfortable with.
*Your standard marine can be seen in five different way - Noise Marine, Plague Marine, etc. Loyalist has only two - Scout vs. Tac.
*The most important, IMO - Mutated Hull and Daemonic Possession.

Advantages of Loyalist over Chaos -
*Dreads are much more reliable.
*Assault Cannons.
*Drop Pods
*Better vehicle selections, including Razorbacks, Whirlwinds and Land Speeders.
*Assault bikes.
*"And They Shall Know No Fear"
*Scouts.

I'm probably forgetting quite a few, since I don't have much experience with Loyalist armies. In the end it all evens out so that you can't say one army is better than the other. Both are good, strong, balanced armies. I only say that Chaos has more variation to it, allowing it to be more of your army rather than just another random Chapter.
 

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Spiky
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Caluin said:
*Your standard marine can be seen in five different way - Nose Marine, Plague Marine, etc.
They tend to smell a bit, :x


And Caluin said we can't say which is the best, but I sincerely believe that chaos is the best because we can put spikes on our tanks.
 
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Only other thing I would tack on as an advantage of Loyalists vs Chaos is the cost effectiveness of the SM HQs. Every SM HQ is cheap for what they come with. Give a chaplain a bolt pistol and field him at 101 points. It's hard to make a chaos leut who will take him for the same cost let alone the abilities he gives to the squad around him. Although spend another 50 points and you can make a monster.
 

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Now with STFU flames!
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MindRaked said:
They tend to smell a bit, :x
Bah! I need a new keyboard, that's all.

MindRaked said:
And Caluin said we can't say which is the best, but I sincerely believe that chaos is the best because we can put spikes on our tanks.
I totally forgot about the spikey factor. Ofcourse that obviously tilts the favour over towards the Chaos Legions.
 

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Let's not forget fluff. The Chaos Legions have some of the best background stories in the galaxy. Loyalists simply fight for the glory of the Emperor...yay...but Chaos has a ten-thousand-year vendetta going that's full of backstabbing, betrayal and horrible consequences. Much more interesting!
 

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My 2 kopecks:
The main word for Chaos is variety.
The new SM chapter rules are bland: add good trait, add bad trait.
The rules for CSM legions, especially non-Undivided, are complex and really make your army different.
And just look at our armory. Is there a place to stick, say, a Dreadclaw there? No.
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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Advantages of Chaos over Loyalist -
*Autocannons in our Havoc Squads.
*Veteran Skills that don't require a form of disadvantage trait.
*The FO slot reorganization rules for marks.
*Obliterators and Daemons are potent units.
*Access to the MoCU, which is sometimes considered to be better than fearless.
*Bikers can come in larger unit sizes making them more survivable.
*Raptors > Assault Squads.
*Defilers.
*HQ choices are more varied, allowing custom tuning to make a choice you're comfortable with.
*Your standard marine can be seen in five different way - Noise Marine, Plague Marine, etc. Loyalist has only two - Scout vs. Tac.
*The most important, IMO - Mutated Hull and Daemonic Possession.
Agreed, though to tell you the truth i find that chaos is so spoiled for choice that most players end up having less fluff to their armies as SM players do(minus the noob'lar of course). SM players still have choice, but they need to supplement it more with mindful conversions and history. This is just personal experiance i'm speaking from. The same applies to necrons(at least mine). They have so very little choice to make that I end up with huge warmy that actually has a huge backround story and detailed character profiles, etc.

Also for chaos:
*Widely cheaper than normal marines(Though more liable to spend excessive points on upgrades I suppose...again with the noob'lar.)

Advantages of Loyalist over Chaos -
*Dreads are much more reliable.
*Assault Cannons.
*Drop Pods
*Better vehicle selections, including Razorbacks, Whirlwinds and Land Speeders.
*Assault bikes.
*"And They Shall Know No Fear"
*Scouts.
I'm not trying to tip the scales here but I just feel that the chaos list up their kinda outweighs this so i'll toss in a few.

*Cheap Terminator assault squads(Chaos termy with 2xLC? 81 pts marked)
*Wide access to marine melters(Plasma Cannons)
*The only efficient Land Raider(Crusader variant)
 
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