DP too good to be true???

1063 Views 18 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Sabe, Feb 1, 2006

Emp.

Discussion Starter · Jan 30, 2006

I was fiddling around with the Chaos Codex yesterday trying to make the most devestating Slaanesh DP possible when I came up with this....is it legal?

Daemonic Gifts: essence, mutation, aura, stature, combat drugs, and strength
Wargear: CSM Bike, spiky bits, master-crafted weapon
Other upgrades not counting: Great Weapon, sorceror upgrade, wind of chaos spell, mark of slaanesh, and upgraded bike's wep to a meltagun and then switched for a doom siren for him.

Total comes out to : 263

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Caluin

· #2 · Jan 30, 2006

The only thing I see wrong is that you can't combine Stature with a Steed of any kind, which the Bike counts as. So you'll have to drop one of those two. Otherwise, yes he's a plenty legal and expensive Lord.

Reactions: 1

Emp.

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 30, 2006

A Bike does count as a steed even though they move opposites for reg. move and charge?

brushman

· #4 · Jan 30, 2006

A Bike does count as a steed even though they move opposites for reg. move and charge?

Hmm im not sure exactly what your question is. Can you clarify please? You can't have a Statured Lord with Bike like Caluin said.

Ben

Reactions: 1

Caluin

· #5 · Jan 30, 2006

Emp. said:
A Bike does count as a steed even though they move opposites for reg. move and charge?

Yes. It has the "Steed" classification in its description on page 16 of the Chaos Codex.

Sabe

· #6 · Jan 30, 2006

Caluin and IAmAngel are correct. However if you want to trade in D strength for D. Speed(better than flight IMO, allows you to fleet too don't forget) you can have a D. Prince thats pretty much just as fast and considerably cheaper.

Your combo with D. Speed instead:

Daemonic Gifts: essence, mutation, aura, stature, combat drugs, and D. speed
Wargear: spiky bits, master-crafted weapon
Other upgrades not counting: Great Weapon, sorceror upgrade, wind of chaos spell, mark of slaanesh, and a ccw for extra attack

Total: 229

Really more expensive than i would go for still but its legal at least. Personally I would drop the sorceror, Wind of chaos and master craft and maybe trade essence and mutation in for Strength and resilience. Overall that will save you another 40+(45?) points and make you prince a bit more affordable but not really any less effective.

Reactions: 1

Emp.

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 30, 2006

I haven't started playing Chaos yet so Im not fine tuned to everything, but I see what you mean. (Also, I finally saw it, first word in the CSM Bike profile "Steed.") So, wind of chaos isn't very good for a CC Daemon Prince? Alright, Sabe I might go with your DP setup above and use that, it looks pretty much like the same thing (but cheaper in pts :yes

Thanks everyone who posted!

Arizzar

· #8 · Jan 30, 2006

My advice to you is to make a cheaper lord as Sabe suggested. 229 points is too expensive. You could make a lord costing about 130-160 points who would be 95% as effective as the one costing 229 points. Essense and d-aura is overkill. You are paying for redundance you do not need. With drugs, essense and d-aura you have created a monster that will very rarely die. Probably finish most games with 3-4 wounds still on him.

Something like: Lord/ltd, d-speed, d-aura, darkblade + bolt pistol, infiltrate (and maybe an icon for summoning), add drugs if you like. I cannot give you the exact cost, but we are nowhere near 200 points.

This guy will often give you a first turn charge, and even though he does not have stature, strength and all the other stuff he wounds most things on 2+ and strikes at initiative 6 and thus before 95% of the stuff. Charging him into a group of normal marines will probably earn back the points you paid for him right away. For some extra survivability smak resilience on him, in the long run it will keep him going longer than essense.

Oh, and I gotta stress the importance of having strength six on your cc lord. It makes a huge difference when people throw nurglings, rippers, scarabs at you. Instakilling them instead of having to cause three wounds to finish one base makes a huge difference. A strength 5 lord can spend an entire game trying to finish off 100 points worth of nurglings.

The invincible chaos lord of doom monster is fun to field. I have done it a lot in friendly games. But when you see how they really do in games you will notice that they are not that much more effective than a lord costing you 100 points less.

And in my experience, the things that will kill your 150 point lord will also kill you 230-250 point guy... such as him being charged by stealers, wyches and that dude with the agonizer, a tyrant with the right upgrades etc. etc. And these units are not the ones your lord should be fighting anyway. When plowing through rank and file troops you will barely notice the difference.

Arizzar

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Andusciassus

· #9 · Jan 30, 2006

When , or if, you are making Sabe's prince I think you should drop the extra CCW. I'm not 100% sure, since I'm far from my books, but I don't think you can wield the Great Weapon in one hand. I know you can use the Kai-gun onehanded if yu are statured, but that's not the same. I can check it up later if no one else does.

Arizzar

· #10 · Jan 30, 2006

You cannot wield a great weapon in one hand. The great weapon gives a strength bonus because it is a huge weapon wielded in both hands. What would be a great weapon for a regular lord is no more than a ccw for a statured lord. A great weapon does not have a specific size, it is a term used to describe a weapon so large that the model you give it to must use both hands to use it. No matter your lords size a great weapon remains a two-handed weapon. So unfortunately no extra attack for using an extra ccw.

Unless you don't like daemon weapons or already have one you won't give up a Dark Blade is a much better choice than a great weapon. Actually a Dark Blade seems to be more or less the default choice for most chaos lords.

Arizzar

Andusciassus

· #11 · Jan 30, 2006

But beware when using weapons that gives a strength bonus, those foul tools will deny you that extra D6 for armour penetration that the statured lord gets from his Monsterous Creature status. It is a bittersweet deal...

Reactions: 1

karantalsis

· #12 · Jan 30, 2006

Can't you choose not to use the weapon when attacking a vehicle and thus get the extra d6?

Andusciassus

· #13 · Jan 30, 2006

The rulebook is quite harsh on that point, but if your friends are human it shoould be no problem. It (Rules) says "Some MCs have weapons..." it's on p55, I recommend you to read it and then discuss it with your friends/opponents.

Emp.

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 30, 2006

Darkblade or should I use Dreadaxe? I understand that darkblade will give me much needed strength, but dredaxe will let me go character hunting easier....what do you choas geniuses think is a better daemon weapon?

Andusciassus

· #15 · Jan 30, 2006

Well, on paper the Dreadaxe seems like a solidchoice, but when compared to the rget strength you get with the Darkblade it is nothing.
You should not use your DP for hunting down those with inv. saves anyway, (s)he shall walk kneedeep in rank and file troopers.
That's from a genius...aka not me...

Arizzar

· #16 · Jan 30, 2006

Emp. said:
Darkblade or should I use Dreadaxe? I understand that darkblade will give me much needed strength, but dredaxe will let me go character hunting easier....what do you choas geniuses think is a better daemon weapon?

I thing (though I make no claim to be a genious

) the darkblade is usually a better weapon. Invulnerable saves are faily few and far between. Most armies have just a couple of guys with invulnerable save, and as mentioned earlier they are most likely the guys you don't want your lord fighting anyway.

My suggestion is to give your lord the darkblade and let him have his merry way with regular troops. Leave other peoples HQ's for your hidden powerfists. Thats what they are there for. :yes:

For me, the biggest reason not to pick dreadaxe is that it means I will have to take stature for my lord. And stature means losing the nice independent character protection. And probably, if I were to take a statured lord I would most likely give him strength and a darkblade, thus reaching strength 8. Strength 8 would let me instakill most guys with inv. saves meaning that they just have to fail one, which is fairly likely (unless you run into a seer council in which case the dreadaxe is your best friend). So even for character hunting you may get more milage out of the darkblade.

But by all means try out both weapons. A dreadaxe does not have to be shaped like an axe, and a darkblade can just as easily be an axe. So whatever weapon your lord has can be used as both.

Arizzar

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Sabe

· #17 · Jan 30, 2006

Well they got me on the GW+CCW thing, in that case i'd suggest just to CCW's unless you want a daemon Weapon.

And as for the whole Wind o Chaos deal: Most DP's are wise staying away from psychic powers all together. It raises their Target Priority even more, makes them more expensive and because they are big on combat you'll likely only ever use it once. Some tzeentch daemon princes or some slaanesh ones with minor psychic powers may be good but aside from that psychic wargear is a waste on most DP's.

onlainari

· #18 · Feb 1, 2006

The guy can be railguned. I don't think any daemon prince over 200pts is any good.

The best daemon princes don't have stature anyway.

Sabe

· #19 · Feb 1, 2006

The portion of armies in the game that have a railgun to fire are pretty slim. Sure lots of armies have str. 10 weapons(mind you I wouldn't even say lots) but even then you can always block LOS to the DP.

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