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Gladewalker
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429 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello. One of my friends who doesn't come to most of our club nights plays dwarves. I haven't faced him many times but each game is extremely hard for me. I know dwarves are supposed to be one of the hardest challanges for WE, but what are some of your tactics, units, and suggestions when facing them.

We are playing 1k games now, though we will move up soon to 1500 or 2k. Here is the 1k list he ran against everyone the other day. I got a draw against him.

Rune guys (+1 DD) [general]
Master engineer

2x10 quarrelers
20 warriors

2 cannons with engineers and entrenchment rune (one might have another one)

1 organ gun
*the master engineer joined it to entrench it

The cannons were not very effective against my small units, but the organ gun is obviously nasty since it doesnt need to hit.

My thoughts are to stay away from him and take out his quarrelers as early as possible. Then I'd just try to claim quarters and stay hidden from cannons. I dont think I'll bother shooting at the war machines since with regular shots you need a 6+ (due to distance and -2 for hard cover), 5+ (to hit crew), and 5+ (T4). This makes it a 1 in 54 chance of wounding.

What do you guys think?
 

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LO Zealot
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2,610 Posts
the real question is, what's in your army?

I've never had a problem with dwarves with any of the armies I've played (except Chaos Dwarves) and that's because Dwarves are super predictable and can't move. Organ guns are nasty, but if you charge them with something, they can't shoot. Our movement is so great and we don't worry about panic, so yeah, I would shoot at the crossbowmen, but get something over on the side (usually a couple of units like wild riders, glade riders, eagle) where you are partially out of range/sight for most of his shooting. You're going to take a mouthful of the organ gun, so just suck it up and then charge it the next turn. Wild riders will eat the organ crew alive whether there is a master engineer or not. The rest of his army will die to dryads. I've never seen a cannon do anything to except kill 1 dryad at a time if you get your guys lined up correctly. Crossbow dwarves will also have a hard time killing any dryads. You take care of the warmachines and shooters and all he has left is a poor combat hero (runepriest suck in combat) and a warrior unit that is easily surrounded.
 

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Gladewalker
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429 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Good suggestions. As for my lists. I play with anything and everything but the list I used the other day was...

Note: this is not optimized as I try not to tailor

noble: HoDA, helm, gw, sh, la
branchwraith: cluster, lvl 1

8 dryads
10 GG: musician
10 GG: musician
5 GR: musician

6 dancers: musician

5 waywatchers

In the game, I started my waywatchers, dryads, and GR moving up a flank to charge war machines. The WW got hit by organ gun and all died (I didn't know at that point that it didnt ever miss). The dryads and GR got into combat. GR got killed in subsequent turns of combat but did tie up organ gun. Dryads killed 2 canon crews and his general but were under 50% by the end; they made up their points for sure.

It was one of my first games and I was ignorant of dwarven units. I managed a draw. If I had it to do again, I would have sent the dancers in too.
 

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Firefly
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4,209 Posts
At 1000pts I think that waywatchers are a luxuary you cannot afford. I would drop them and get more dryads. They are fairly resiliant and make mincemeat out of quarellers.

Use the Alter to get rid of the Warmachines along with the glade riders. Ignore the 20 warriors and concentrate on killing the quarrellers. Try to only be in range of one unit with both your GG units and use your manouverability to concentrate fire.

I think the organ gun has a shorter range than longbows so ignore it until you have to get in range.
 

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Gladewalker
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429 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Im working on buying more dryads but one group is all I have for now. How would an alter get near war engines if they are tightly packed and would be a priority target for all his shooters.

Waywatchers were just for fun. They aren't that much for than a scout group. Why do you say that I can ill aford them.
 

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Firefly
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4,209 Posts
If he is castling then just keep shooting from your max range, you will chip away at the quarellers and the cannons wont do to much damage. This will force him to move to get VP.

Your Alter should be able to smash through the quarrellers, if he fluff's the rolls he's dead but if he hit's then they will have no save and he should win the combat. He is great at tying up a unit for a turn or two. To get him close you may need to block LOS to him or use terrain, remember that he has an 18" charge and the dwarves cannot Stand and Shoot if he isn't in LOS. In fact, the very threat of a flank charge might be enough to draw attention away from your other more important units. The HoDA should make short work of a unit of quarrellers, don't be tempted to go for the warmachines, kill the quarrellers and then you outrange everything except the cannons.

Waywatchers. At 1000 pts games you have a unit that can marchblock and fire off 5 potential KB arrows a turn. Against most opponents this is fairly useless at 1000pts as they would struggle to actually get into a good position, they are a lot easier to avoid because your opponent only has to use a small part of the deployment zone. At 120pts for the 5 you would be better off getting another unit of gladeguard or wardancers.
 

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/botnobot/
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12,489 Posts
When I play Dwarfs, I go for the units I know I can get, and that doesn't include, in my view, hammerers and iron breakers. I focus my shooting on any shooters he has, thunderers and quarrelers. I also get to war machines at quickly as possible. The organ gun, we all know, is a real killer, so I might set two or three units against it knowing that he can't kill them all before something gets there.

Killing off his shooters usually leaves my archers three rounds for all 30 of my archers to start working on a unit of warriors or longbeards. Usually, 10 archers have already been freed by the start of turn three, meaning that that particular unit has four rounds to start picking on something.

IN my last game against Dwarfs, I was so worried about the organ gun that I pumped all 30 shots onto it. 30 shots, half hit. Randomize and 5 should hit the crew. One maybe two dead per turn. In two turns, in that last game, the organ gun crew was dead. Then I started on the warriors and took them down to about 7 guys that I could then pounce with dryads and wardancers because I wanted his banner.

So short answer, yes. Shoot them. Once you're at short range, you'll be putting warriors and longbeards at 5+ armor saves. They won't last long.

Arcane bodkins, too, will drop some dwarfs every turn.



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Gladewalker
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429 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
If he is castling then just keep shooting from your max range, you will chip away at the quarellers and the cannons wont do to much damage. This will force him to move to get VP.

Your Alter should be able to smash through the quarrellers, if he fluff's the rolls he's dead but if he hit's then they will have no save and he should win the combat. He is great at tying up a unit for a turn or two. To get him close you may need to block LOS to him or use terrain, remember that he has an 18" charge and the dwarves cannot Stand and Shoot if he isn't in LOS. In fact, the very threat of a flank charge might be enough to draw attention away from your other more important units. The HoDA should make short work of a unit of quarrellers, don't be tempted to go for the warmachines, kill the quarrellers and then you outrange everything except the cannons.

Waywatchers. At 1000 pts games you have a unit that can marchblock and fire off 5 potential KB arrows a turn. Against most opponents this is fairly useless at 1000pts as they would struggle to actually get into a good position, they are a lot easier to avoid because your opponent only has to use a small part of the deployment zone. At 120pts for the 5 you would be better off getting another unit of gladeguard or wardancers.
Good advice. I can always count on good help on LO.

I see what you mean about waywatchers. I have started using them since they were a unit I had on hand. Now that I got all my special choices, WR are coming out. I'll attack with GR, WR, and an alter followed by dryads and dancers.

David you sure have more luck shooting against dwarves than I do. The ability to entrench the machines is very good. I'm not looking forward to games where I have treekin or treemen either due to magical fire runes.

Im genuinely optimistic about dwarves. They represent a fun challange (the player and the army) which I dont get from other players/races.

Thanks everyone.
 

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/botnobot/
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12,489 Posts
Well, this organ gun wasn't entrenched, so that helped a lot.

Against Dwarfs, I've learned to really be choosy about what units I go for. Then I try to minimize my losses, capture a couple of table quarters, grab a banner or two, and stay the heck away from his lords and meaty units, other than to feint at them and let him worry that I might be coming his way.



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Registered
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i have an idea that might help, if he deploys he's cannons and organ gun close too each other try move a forrest right in front of them....
 

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Gladewalker
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429 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i have an idea that might help, if he deploys he's cannons and organ gun close too each other try move a forrest right in front of them....
I'd thought of that but that tactic is contingent on a lot of factors. Still, if the opportunity presents itself, I'll take it.

David. I'm with you on playing defensively. I will give all out assault another try or two (to keep my tactics unpredicable) but I think the more promising way is to...
- kill quarrelers
- keep out of range/los
- claim quarters (try to get one of his with fast calvary and flyers)
- continue shooting at any targets in range once above conditions are met
- capitalize on any mistakes he makes by coming forward
- if at all possible kill general
 
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