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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From everyone's perspective, what do you'all find are the best ways to deal with dwarves (in larger games)? Once you start getting above the 2000+ pt level, they all seem to be going artillery heavy (or heavier than normal).
 

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Win CC by 1. Then they run.


If he is a smart opponent he will continue to focus fire units to eliminate them entirely so you cannot raise them back. give him some high priority targets or screen your blocks so they make it. not exactly rocket science.
 

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gun line dwarves are in my opinion one of the easiest armies out their to trounce. not just defeat or crush even, but trounce.

the first and best place to win is in terrain deployment, make hills worthless, if they put one in a deployment zone you know they probably going to try to turtle, so don't let him. put some level 3 blocks line of sight terrain right in front of the hill (woods, some ruins, lots of stuff).

the second place is deployment. in deployment try to figure out the probable placement of his big guns and make him not want to put it their, wolfs right on the outer side and such.

the third and arguably most important place to win (most all games not only these types) is movement. you have the advantage in that you expect to move, move so he cannot shoot the good stuff. if you spend three to four tuns moving in such a way that he cannot shoot then, bravo. gun lines in general, and dwarves in particular (low movement) suffer if they need to redeploy, every turn not shooting is a good thing. and by moving such as this we force them to redeploy if they want to shoot the good stuff.

the only real specialized tactics depend on how he sets up, turtle or line. and even then thay are not realy nessary.

if he turtles on a hill and you blocked about a third of his arc of sight with a forest, approach from this blind spot. and do the movement thing we talked about before.

if he goes for a line overwhelm one flank an steam roller on through, the key to this is bate the other side, let him shoot at some shadows so that he does not wise up to early.

if i am going to assume that you screen smartly you should do well, even if you don't magic the bejesus out of the game.
 

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the first and best place to win is in terrain deployment, make hills worthless, if they put one in a deployment zone you know they probably going to try to turtle, so don't let him. put some level 3 blocks line of sight terrain right in front of the hill (woods, some ruins, lots of stuff).
Wow, that's gotta be one of the lamest things I've ever heard of doing. I can't imagine it wins many friends doing something like that. Do you seriously place woods and such right in front of hills?

I seriously don't get that kind of terrain placement - I dunno, maybe because I like tournaments and you don't see that kind of stuff that it bothers me.
 

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Wow, that's gotta be one of the lamest things I've ever heard of doing. I can't imagine it wins many friends doing something like that. Do you seriously place woods and such right in front of hills?

I seriously don't get that kind of terrain placement - I dunno, maybe because I like tournaments and you don't see that kind of stuff that it bothers me.
your joking right, people at tournaments do this (as well as much more dastardly tricks) more often than not when fighting a gun line. at tournaments people pull out all the stops (in lists and tactics) and go for the jugular with savagely vicious intent.

and the whole point of turn based terrain deployment is to show that as a general you pick your battle field, only an idiot (i am referring to the preverbal one, not you) fights a battle that favors his opponent from the outset.
 

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I agree with murphy, I actually see this the most at tournaments. Where everyone brings out their thorek gunlines and double steam tank lists. I guess you play at a lot of indy GT's moob?

And if you are having a really hard time against gunlines (understandable with a VC list's lack of shooting) then something needs to be done to even the playing field to make it fun for both players. If this means making hills slightly less useful then go for it.

It helps that when my group plays we have an additional rule for terrain placement. Every piece needs to be 8-12 inches from another piece of terrain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Appreciate all the helpful advice - I definately agree with the terrain and hills - even though we do the random terrain setup, it always seems like the dwarf gun line on hills (to eliminate my screening zombies) seems to come up. I'm thinking I'm going to focus on summoning & vanheling the same units to get some additional movement (if I can get them tied up in combat they can't shoot), as well as maybe spirit hosts from Winds of Undeath & Varghulfs in there quick for hunting. Pretty confidant in hand to hand with my units and supporting items to dominate - magic heavy so not as much worried about inability to raise units. It is a toss up for a flying, terror causing, scouting Vampire Lord for a first turn charge into warmachines or a 6 pwr dice casting Lord. We'll see.
 

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Appreciate all the helpful advice - I definately agree with the terrain and hills - even though we do the random terrain setup, it always seems like the dwarf gun line on hills (to eliminate my screening zombies) seems to come up. I'm thinking I'm going to focus on summoning & vanheling the same units to get some additional movement (if I can get them tied up in combat they can't shoot), as well as maybe spirit hosts from Winds of Undeath & Varghulfs in there quick for hunting. Pretty confidant in hand to hand with my units and supporting items to dominate - magic heavy so not as much worried about inability to raise units. It is a toss up for a flying, terror causing, scouting Vampire Lord for a first turn charge into warmachines or a 6 pwr dice casting Lord. We'll see.

I'd avoid the scouting lord, since he must be your general... last thing you want is to have the dwarf win the roll to go first and cannon ball him in the face. The crumble checks would be quite unpleasant.

Take the vampire lord with master of the black arts and the forbidden lore (vampires - to ensure you get danse), then lord of the dead or summon ghouls, whichever you prefer. He'll generate 5 dice (or 6 if you give him the extra base level, but that's expensive) and can try to dance 2-3 times depending.

For another vampire, take the black periapt, since dwarves have no magic you'll always get the extra die in your magic phase. Take the Book of Arkhan, too, somewhere.

A neat trick might be to go ghoul heavy and march up with ghoulkin before the game starts to get even closer.

So you could potentially march up 8" pre-game, then another 8" on the first turn, raise dead another 12" ahead of you and then try to Danse them in. You'll threaten 36" on the first turn. If nothing else, you should be able to take away most of his scrolls giving you free reign to magic away in the later turns.
 

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use a vampire with hunter in the dark, sceptre de noirot, avater of death, anf talisman of the lycni (avatar and the talisman are not essential, just useful for destroying war machines) then raise dead a bunch of zombies right in front of him so he has to shoot them (you could also give him black periapt for an extra pd meaning more raise dead)

or you could just go all etheral
that would be funny
 

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I suppose you could always try Forbidden Lore with lore of heavens, and cast forked lightning to give you some shoot-back. Not great, but could help, in tandem with some some of the other suggestions here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well this is more of a battle report but I went ahead and tried out my 3500 pt list out in against dwarves. My VL I was hiding behind units got targeted immediately by artillery on a hill (He used 4 BT, 1 Cannon and 1 FC), almost died 1st turn, then proceeded to miscast for the next 2 turns. Zombie fest was in full effect - except they couldn't do anything to any of the dwarves - kept losing too many to get the full +5 combat res. I made the mistake of running the zombies up ahead screening my grave guard and zombies - only problem is they kept them out of combat almost the entire game. On the bright side - Vargulfs are incredible, as well as sneaking a unit of wraiths up with Vanhel's. Dwarf leadership being what it is, the terror didn't do too much, but they did extremely well. I definately think raising the units of zombies up near the warmachines and Vanheling them in is great to take off the pressure, combined with the Varghulf and wraiths takes my warmachine worries away. What I needed was a good hammer unit or two to kill the elite infantry units - going to add a unit of blood knights and change my uber casting VL over to a VL with dreadlance, red fury, etc.
 

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If the Dwarf Player has made an effort to go with a large shooting phase, then you have a great counter: Raise the casualties back.

The only threat you will face is an organ gun; it has enough power to level a unit.
 
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