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Will eat your soul.
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey I was bored so I came up with a 2000 point alaitoc list while my list is being created by the guys in the army list builder forum.

HQ: 237 points
Farseer and 3 Warlocks.
Spirit Stones, Runes of Witnessing
Doom, Guide, Mind War
All witch blades to singing spears

Troops: 762points
2x5 Rangers-
2x5 pathfinders

2x12 Guardians
2x Warlocks
2x Conceal
2x Bright Lance

Elites: 525 points
10 Harlequins
Death Jester
Shadow seer
8 harlequins Kisses

6 Howling Banshees
Exarch
Executioner
Acrobat and Warshout
Falcon Transport with Starcannons

Fast Attack: 257
10 Swooping Hawks
Exarch
Sunrifle, Skyleap and intercept

Heavy Support: 200
2x Wraithlord, 2 flamers and wraithsword.

Total: 1981 points

Well thats my list. i tried to make it balanced but I might have added in some cheesy elements. just let me kno wat you think and if anything should be changed. Also any suggestions on what to use the 19 odd points remaining for.:)
Thanks
 

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try multi shot weapons for the guardians, they will miss too much with single shot. Havent ever used swooping hawks, and most people dont find them very useful, so you may want to consider dropping them for some fire dragons in a wave serpent for some anti tank. Also, might be best to arm the wraith lords with BL/EML.
 

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Oh boy another argument is going to happen about Swooping Hawks :z. It's true, they are awesome. And they have sweet gernades that could do damage8Y.

Okay For the list.

Farseer w/ warlocks: Drop the Runes of Witnessing from him. you realy never need it anyways, and it could damage you even more. Drop at lesat one power. He's too expensive to hold 3 powers. And you really don't need both Doom and Guide. I'd drop the warlocks becuase they have no purpose. If you want to protect the farseer then stick him in a squad of Guardians ( or maybe even Howling Banshees, no where really good to put him.) Altogether drop the warlocks( 75 points extra right there) and a power. That will get you extra spending points.

Do you really need 4 squads of Rangers/ Pathfinders. Keep at least two of them and buy yourself something nice8Y with the extra points.

Guardians: Okay. I'm starting to get the picture that Dire Avengers are better but I still liek these boys. Maybe you can drop one and buy a Dire Avenger squad and try them out at least. Oh and you should change the weapon of the Guardians to a scatter Laser or a starcannon.

Harlies: Fine, get rid of 4 Kisses and maybe get yourself a troupe master. Maybe get rid of the death Jester.

Banshees: you need to ge them to max or they will be eaten alive. Transport Fine. Powers... okay I guess.

Swooping Hawks: Fine8Y

Wraithlords: Flamers are fine, wraithswords are not. If you need to, get rid of one and give them a Bright Lance and a Eldar Missle Launcher. If you can afford two then so the same for another. Otherwise get a Flacon, those things are sweet. ( or Maybe even a Fire Prism)

THat's all I can think of. Have fun!8X
 

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The Fallen
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swooping hawks OWN read their special ability in the Eldar codex then come back and tell me that they are not useful!
becuase they have low toughness, low strength, useless AP and generally flit around achieving nothing until someone kills them?
 

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becuase they have low toughness, low strength, useless AP
Yeah, but that also describes just about every Eldar unit, with a few exceptions. This also describes most Guardsmen, Tyranids, and Tau. They aren't always reasons why a unit stinks, but they are definitely things to consider when shaping your plan. For every drawback there is a positive that may make them less useless. For instance, Swooping Hawks are fast, have decent anti-tank ability in an assault, can Deep Strike, and have weapons that, while lacking in AP, have the capability to put out a lot of shots at most armies' extreme rapid fire range.
 

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The Fallen
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. For every drawback there is a positive that may make them less useless. For instance, Swooping Hawks are fast, have decent anti-tank ability in an assault, can Deep Strike, and have weapons that, while lacking in AP, have the capability to put out a lot of shots at most armies' extreme rapid fire range.
ok, just to add more to my points, their weapons are little better than IG flashlights, they have an armour save which is bypassed by most small arms and they are very pricey, costing about half as much again as your average tac marine

Their AT ability depends on them getting a charge on a tank, which requires them to be around on the board and is rather obvious, most players will A) shoot them before they get chance to charge and B) simply put an infantry unti between the hawks and the tank, preventing the charge

They have a lot of shots?
not really other than a tooled up exarch, they are outshot by Dire avengers for example, and their shots are so ineffetive, compare for example marines, at 24 inches to give the hawks best advantage,

hawks have 2 shots for 22 points, they will hit 2 in three so 33 points of hawks = 1 hit, they will wound 1 on two so 66 points of hawk = 1 wound, the marines will save 2 in three so for every 198 points spent on hawks you will kill 1 marine

marines: 15 points = 1 shot, 22.5 points = 1 hit, 33.75 points = 1 wound so for every 38 points spent on marines you kill a hawk

know I know that maths hammer aint the be all and end all but the difference is so pronounced that it is undeniable

their mobility and deep strike does little to make any difference
 

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ok, just to add more to my points, their weapons are little better than IG flashlights, they have an armour save which is bypassed by most small arms and they are very pricey, costing about half as much again as your average tac marine
I agree. Their lasblasters are lasguns with a little more kick. I still enjoy it when an enemy squad gets within rapid fire range of my guardsmen and I can finally get two shots each out of them. Swooping Hawks get to do that every time. Plus, if we are comparing Eldar (or any other units for that matter) against any other army, then the point is moot because obviously the person posting this list isn't going to be helped by a statement that says "Swooping Hawks suck because Tac Marines are better".

They have a lot of shots?
not really other than a tooled up exarch, they are outshot by Dire avengers for example, and their shots are so ineffetive, compare for example marines, at 24 inches to give the hawks best advantage
While Dire Avengers do have better Str on their guns, Swooping hawks have a range advantage, plus the ability to get within shooting range more quickly than Dire Avengers. Of course, DA can bladestorm, but from a purely shooty perspective, the Swooping Hawks win here as well since they'd be able to shoot in the next turn.

Look, all I'm saying is that such a broad statement as you made doesn't help anything. Still, it's your opinion and I respect that.
 

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The Fallen
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:) I certainly agree with your points, but I was actually not making a sweeping statement of "Swooping hawks suck because tac marines are better" but rather trying to cover off another user who had simply posted "take swooping hawks, they are brilliant or tell me why not", personnally I like the hawk models and do occasionally use them, but they are not brilliant, and they need to be used in the right context, the post suggesting "take them they are brilliant" was my issue, it was essentially misguiding the OP IMHO
 

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I personally field 2-3 full squads of hawks. Their are "brilliant" because they are good against almost everyone and everything. Sure, they are only S3 guns, but their speed and range makes them ideal mobile snipers. You can easily pick off 2-3 from a unit of SM per round without putting your own unit in any sort of risk. When the enemy gets closer, just skyleap out and deep strike them next round throughing down the pie plate. With haywire grenades, they can take anything down, from a land speeder to a monolith. Swooping Hawks are handy on their own, but their real advantage is working with other units in the army, much like the harlequin.

So, the hawks can: Deepstrike, indirect fire a pie plate anywhere on the board when they deepstrike, take down a monolith, mobile snipe, jump out of any situation. Id say they can pay for themselves really fast. On the other hand, they are weak. A whirlwind or a basalisk will destroy an entire unit of these guys...

I love them, you can choose not too.

As for the Halies, All you need is a full squad of kisses and a shadow seer. The only place you want these guys is in HtH, anything else and they are walking dead. With their poor strength, rending with kisses will be a godsend against anything.
 

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Full squad of Kisses? Are you joking :rofl? You only really need 4 of them, 5 at the most. Having more than 6 would be over kill ( well for most people8Y).

2-3 squads of Hawks? Wow you do love them lol. That would be some serious Fire Power. And Tank Killing!
 

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The Fallen
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as per natlav, full squads of harleys with kisses are overkill, you will wipe out your opponents squad, an intelligent opponent will use this by feeding you a cheap squad, you wipe it ouyt with your charge and find yourself 7 inches from his next squad, you make your consolidation move, putting you somewhere between 1 and 13 inches away, his turn, he moves forwards up to 6 inches, putting him 1-7 inches away, and then he rapid fires your harleys into oblivion

better to take 5 or so kisses and the rest without, leave part of his squad standing, they will hit back but you remove casualties from the harleys without kisses, then finish him in his turn, giving you a consolidation move, then your move then fleet and charge, catching units up to 16-21 inches away and protecting you from fire at the cost of the odd harley,

Again with the hawks, let me say I dont dilike them I love the minis, but they wont snipe 2-3 marines reliably, they are doing well if they kill 1, the return fire though will kill 2-3 hawks at least, hawks are mnore expensive than tac marines, it isnt an exchange you want to start with them

If some one wants to argue that they can eat IG and other light infantry, as long as you use area terrain and other LOS blockers to limit the return fire then fine, happy with that, but I cant gaurentee I regularly face light infantry, by far the higher proportion of armies I face, are meqs, againts which both their guns and pie plate are all but useless

as for the vehicle thing, I dont know who you face but as I said earlier in the thread, my oppnents will simply move an infantry squad between the hawks and the tank, particularly a monolith, with its ability to teleport a squad through the portal, it can shield its self with ease, you have to be a pretty hopeless cron player to let a monolith get caught like that and a good player will catch the hawks with either destroyers or a lord with VOD and a warrior squad and obliterate them with ease for easy points

Again, I like hawks but they are not very effective, particularly against non-light infantry armies
 

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Again, I like hawks but they are not very effective, particularly against non-light infantry armies
I suppose that you're right. Generally you will face a MEQ army, and Hawks are generally not as effective as other options here. However, one of the things I am beginning to like about Eldar is the fact that all units need to work in concert to get a win. If it is a win, its usually a spectacular win. Of course, the losses can be just as spectacular. What I'm getting at is that even if a Swooping Hawk unit's only job is to draw fire, as long as the result gained is what needed to happen, then it's still an effective unit.
 

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The Fallen
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What I'm getting at is that even if a Swooping Hawk unit's only job is to draw fire, as long as the result gained is what needed to happen, then it's still an effective unit.
That is a valid point, althought it requires a degree of "finesse" to pull off, and there areguements like "harlequins make a cheaper and better lure
 

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Maybe a mathhammer disagreement but I make it 126pts of Hawk to kill an MEQ :happy:
Still not one of the great returns of the codex.

They have their place against light infantry but against power armour, like their fellow save spammers the Avengers they come up painfully short, only more so since they cost more and kill even less, which is a shame given how lovely the models look.

As for the army, I'd suggest swapping the Hawks for Spiders and using the loss of one of the 3 Farseers powers to pay for it, then maybe skip the 2 rangers squads, I tend to prefer pathfinders or nothing.

Then maybe use those points to go with something else fast, jetbikes, vypers or spears, something to help the smaller Banshee squad when it arrives at it's destination, should they arrive to find their targets rather more entrenched and numerous than they can handle.

That leaves you with a solid firebase of pathfinders, guardians and wraithlords to anchor down the line and groundpound objectives while you have a mobile strike force of aspects, harlies and vehicles to strike your opponents weak spots.
 
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