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Son of LO
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A lot of people have labeled jetbikes as being part of the "useless" eldar units and I was wondering why that is. comparing them to space marine and chaos bikers they have less stats but considerably more maneuverable. S. catapults are also better then bolters on a bike as you should be able to get into range easy and then still assault.

I tried comparing shining spears to attack bikes and only found that shining spears plain suck.:)

Space marine bikes are considered to be really good so even if the eldar bikes are worse then they should be quite good at least. If not really good.:wacko:
 

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señor brushman!
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On the weapons, Space Marine bikes can be upgraded with better weapons IMHO.

The Eldar Jetbikes don't really have much more manueverablility. They can both speed boost 24".

Also, Eldar Jetbikes are just really expensive for what they do I think.

Ben
 

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LordLink said:
A lot of people have labeled jetbikes as being part of the "useless" eldar units and I was wondering why that is. comparing them to space marine and chaos bikers they have less stats but considerably more maneuverable. S. catapults are also better then bolters on a bike as you should be able to get into range easy and then still assault.
p53, if mounted on the bike, you may fire rapid fire and still assault
I tried comparing shining spears to attack bikes and only found that shining spears plain suck.:)
as do normal jetbikes.
Space marine bikes are considered to be really good so even if the eldar bikes are worse then they should be quite good at least. If not really good.:wacko:
No, marine bikes are cheaper by 3 pts, they have better WS, BS, toughness, and weapon options. Then you have scout bikes, which for 10 points cheaper have better stats acorss the board except a 4+ instead of 3+. But for that price diff (and they still have one higher toughness then eldar bikes, and ws and bs, and better weapon options), you can buy more for the same points and still be better of vs standard fire as you have a higher toughness.

In fact, the only thing eldar jetbikes have going for them is that they can move in the assault phase even if not assaulting. That's it. And they cost more.
 

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An easier comparison would be to another jetbike namely the dark eldar reaver.

Bonuses of being a guardian jetbike
3+ save
Warlock leader
Shuriken Cannons

Bonuses of being a reaver jetbike
Succubus leader
Blasters
Combat Drugs
+1 Ws
+1 Bs
+2 I
10 points cheaper believe it or not.
 

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Son of LO
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
WS and strength should matter very little to eldar jetbikes though since they dont assault.
minus one ballistic skill and toughness can be a problem i guess. Don't jetbikes get some sort of bonus going through terrain though. I'd say thats worth the extra 3 points they cost. Who says marines have better weapon options? meltaguns and flamers aren't as good as a shuriken cannon (in my opinion), plasma gun probably is though.

I didnt compare them to dark eldar because they are one of the few codexs i havent memorized yet.

As a summary I believe:

Strength and WS arent really problems for your jetbikes as you can hit and run out of assault range so I think the fact that marines have better stats gets cancelled out by eldar being able to take a warlock.

The terrain benefits (I really hope I'm not wrong on this, rulebooks at a friends house) cancel out the 3 points extra in my opinion.

In effect its hit and run moving 6" VS. an extra toughness, extra BS and slightly better weapons options.

They don't look to bad to me but I guess I won't know how much they suck 'till i go playtest them.
 

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Drills baby.
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They can move through terrain to claim cover save without penalties but will have to test for dangerous terrain if they do.
3 Jetbikes + Shuriken cannon is IMO a nice compliment on a larger force. I can be really annoying to have them pop forth, fire their cannon and then disappear again.
But most players (including me) would spend those points elsewhere as 3 shots per turn at BS 3 (and for a huge cost) is not worth it.
Drop 'em to like 25 each and keep current stats and I would use 'em.
 

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LO Zealot
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Jetbikes being able to move an addition 6" during the assault phase is good and all but in the end the amount of fire power the dish out is not worth their abilites in points.

Jetbikes are not crap but also not exactly great, preferance would be to spend the points on another squad of gaurdians.

In addition if it's speed you want their are plenty of other things which can do a better job than the bikers, one such unit is the warp spiders or swooping hawks.
 

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what ti comes down to is compared to EVERY other biker squad out there they are dearer and much crappier and for the points ya pay for em you can get 2 defender squads that'll probably do more damage
 

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LordLink said:
WS and strength should matter very little to eldar jetbikes though since they dont assault.
then why not just use a squad of vypers? then you get starcannons and they are harder to kill.
minus one ballistic skill and toughness can be a problem i guess. Don't jetbikes get some sort of bonus going through terrain though.
Just the fact that they can ignore terrain if they fly above it. But if they want a cover save, then you must make dangerous terrain tests, meaning every 1 you roll, you lose a huge point sink.
I'd say thats worth the extra 3 points they cost. Who says marines have better weapon options? meltaguns and flamers aren't as good as a shuriken cannon (in my opinion), plasma gun probably is though.
you're joking right? and how many shuricannons can you take? 3 in a full squad (375pts for 9 models and 3 shuricannons). Space marines get the same with what 3 plasma pistols, 6 meltas or flamers for less points, better weapon skill, higher toughness
Strength and WS arent really problems for your jetbikes as you can hit and run out of assault range so I think the fact that marines have better stats gets cancelled out by eldar being able to take a warlock.
Jetbikes can't hit and run, unless you are referring to moving, shooting, and moving them again in the assault phase. As to the warlock, what does he add and how much does he cost? If he adds a heavy flamer,he costs you 51 without any other weapons. Or if you enhance the squad, you're at 46 without weapons to give them a wS of a marine, and still worse BS.
The terrain benefits (I really hope I'm not wrong on this, rulebooks at a friends house) cancel out the 3 points extra in my opinion.
If you claim to move over terrain (meaning you can move faster) then if you end your turn over it, everyone can shoot the tar out of your precious little guardians.
In effect its hit and run moving 6" VS. an extra toughness, extra BS and slightly better weapons options.
and you forget that marines are cheaper. Also, once someone catches your squad in hth, you're going to see a bunch of crushed guardians, since they can't unlock from it. Really sad to watch 400 pts die such a horrible death. A single EDS will crush this squad for 1/2-1/3 the points, just like assault marines for 2/3 the cost.
They don't look to bad to me but I guess I won't know how much they suck 'till i go playtest them.
Have fun, they are neat, just not a viable option vs competative players.
 

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Drills baby.
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Tarzen: Do you seriously ever play for fun? It sounds to me that you need to maximize your lists so they have an almost 100% chance to win.
If someone wants to use Shining Spears or Jetbikes or something 'cus they think they are cool or fun to use then let them.
And I know you are just giving them good advice and all, but it really sounds that you think all their thoughts are wrong and must be corrected.
Don't take this as an insult or something, just an observers comment.
 

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Da Mighty Camel said:
Tarzen: Do you seriously ever play for fun? It sounds to me that you need to maximize your lists so they have an almost 100% chance to win.
Well, fielding 100 guardians in a 2000pt list isn't going to be overly competative. And yet, I used to use nothing less. These days I'm trying out more of a bieltan theme with around 40-60 guardians. Most of my lists allow me to have a sliver of a chance to win, but each and every one is enjoyable. Oh, and I do like to win, everyone I know does, it's ingrained into our culture. That said, I don't play to win, I play to play.
If someone wants to use Shining Spears or Jetbikes or something 'cus they think they are cool or fun to use then let them.
and that's exactly what my last post said, wasn't it?
Just like when I make suggestions to someones army list... "these are my suggestions, you may choose to incorporate what you will, based on your playstyle". I know that most people shun huge guardian squads, but I love them. But then again, I also field 80+ marines in a 1500 pt army. To me, I'd rather use sheer numbers, and yet the idea of IG doesn't appeal-go figure huh? Most armies are designed around play styles. To me, the sit back and shoot idea isn't fun, thus I rush with all my guardians, supported by a wraithlord or 2, or an avatar. Yes, my squads shouldn't win in hth, and yet my guardians rarely do. They've torn down nids by the dozen, good rolling, and knowing how to choose battles, and supporting my units goes a long way.
And I know you are just giving them good advice and all, but it really sounds that you think all their thoughts are wrong and must be corrected.
No, just pointing out both sides of the coin. Like the whole idea that banshees are better. Right now, there is one thing, and one thing only that they excel at, and that's termies. Other than that, scorps are better in nearly every single way. Just like the Wave serpents rock thread. Sure, they are our only large squad transport, but other armies generally have it better. Am I complaining, now, just pointing out the facts. As to correcting, I probably do come across that way, my personality I suppose. But much like everything on the forums, everyone should know to take it with a grain of salt. But to say that guardian jetbikes have a better weapons list than SM bikes isn't true, and should be "corrected", similar to the rhino can pop smoke, and ignore shaken thread.

Don't take this as an insult or something, just an observers comment.
Not an insult in any way, I understand. I appreciate the comment, will try and consider it for other posts, but when you get old, it's hard to change your ways. Also, time on the forums tends to make me a bit gruff when it comes to answering rules questions.

All that said, feel free to play them. I have. With a singing spear they are able to kill vehicles and troops, but there range is certainly a hinderance. Now, if GW dropped their points to 28, and gave them hit and run, hey, we're in business.
 

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Drills baby.
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Heh, I guess it is really hard to read what people think over a board like this. To me it sounded like you complained all the time, but you didn't. :)
And yes, SM bikes have better options then Jetbikes. It is the way of life and we should all learn to live with it.
 

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yeah and we learn to live with it by leaving our bikes at home (nobody can comment on thei crappiness if they can't see em) i'm afraid the eldar bike is one of those things that is remembered fondly but left with all the stuff that got gimped by 4th ed rules.
 

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Favored of Tzeentch
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IMO, the only reason to use an Eldar Jetbike squad is to get the flying Warlock. Singing spear and Destructor = :w00t:

It is very useful in an Ulthwé Strike Force, against any army except marines or Necrons.

I even brought Jetbikes to a tourney and came out a 6th place of 17. :yes:
 

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señor brushman!
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IMO, the only reason to use an Eldar Jetbike squad is to get the flying Warlock. Singing spear and Destructor =
Yeah thats fun to do :yes:

I also like having a Farseer on a jetbike with mind war and singing spear although it can be expensive. It can sometimes be pretty effective though. Using the hit and run to keep from being shot at, guide war at aspiring champions or any troop leader or specific target that you need to take out, and the singing spear for any vehicles that come your way.

Ben
 

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If only they dropped the limit on the shuriken cannons. For a subpar heavy weapon they really treat it like its the bane of all creation.
If even 2 out of three jetbikes could be allowed to take this thing then they might maybe be able to make up their points.
 

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LO Zealot
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All I can say is tarzen gots it right ;).

And.. Eldar Jetbikes are scrap.

You can argue about how it compares to an SM bike or CSM or whatever. It would mean less, and simply because it is very out of place in an eldar army list. It provides not enought essential to any eldar army list, except saim hann, and thats still argueable. For the points spent on these pansies... they could be spent more on effective troops and upgrades alike..

I'd just never field them at all, except maybe as said for USF.. but thats still not reliable against the greatest contenders SM, and necrons to make a difference.
 

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The Fallen
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SM bikes are good cos they zoom up, unload rapid fire and then assault with improved durability

Eldar bikes simply get panned if they do the latter. The shooting alone is not enough this is made worse by their points cost, a jetbike would have to down 2 MEQs before he has recouped his own points cost

The jet bike assault move is over rated, it was quite usefull under 3rd ed rapid fire moves (move up to 12 inches from someone, shoot then drop back, they could not rapid fire you, but under 4th ed they can get you.

The shuriken cannon makes things a little more attractive, but it realyl isnt effective enough to justify getting in close and if you use its full range, you are using very expensive jet bikers as abaltive armour.

So that is why eldar bikes are naff, and that commign from a die hard Saim Hann player!
 

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besides who in their right mind passes up a vyper?
 
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