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Alright so one of my primary opponents is an eldar player...who is in fact contemplating the idea of going mech. What do i do? I'm pretty scared.

I know there was a previous post about the "cheese" aspect of a mech eldar list and they tried to answer some questions but i really wanna open up a discussion on the best way to combat mech eldar. The only potential thing I can think of, is to load up on meltagun and other AT, but even that is going to make it hard with those darn holofields.

ready...set....discuss
 

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The Fallen
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Until 5th ed comes out, then conventional AT weaponry is NOT the way to take out eldar tanks in most armies,
Sisters arguably still have the best weapon in the form of exorcists, but otherwise you are looking at multi shot mid str weaponry, and sisters dont do that well, hence inducted gaurd is the way to go
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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My general approach is to deploy tight with seraphim on the flanks. If you spread out down the board an Eldar player can isolate and annihilate your army one piece at a time while the rest of it flounders about. If you get the positioning just right, it's tough to put a falcon where the contents can disembark within charge range of your sisters, but the seraphim are unable to block the one rear door, if you see what I mean?

Don't try to kill falcons and prisms. As soon as it's shaken move on to shooting the next one. If you do happen to get lucky and kill one, woo.

Using your rhinos to restrict fire lanes is also a useful skill. Make sure that in order to get a shot at an exorcist the firer has to expose himself to the return fire of all your heavy weapons.
 

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dude smack em with the exorcists the holo feilds main str comes from people fear of it it's not that uber in the end eldar tanks are still made of plastic and can be smashed aside with any good hammer

;- few examples

exorcist
eviserators
pentient engines
lance strike
melta strike
exorcist
melta dommys
melta immolater
heavy flamers
exorcist
vindicare assasin
inducted guard
sentinels
exorcist
lemon russ
dreadnaaught
tornados
sm with rockets
sm with meltaguns
scouts with rifles
scots with melta guns
exorcist
scouts with missle launcher
chimeras
landraiders
=][= squads
cannoness
seraphime
EXORCIST
repentia
bolters
exorcist
exorcist
exorcist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so yeah pretty much anything and everything from the army list can punch it's way through eldar vehicle armour even the standard bolter can tear em from the sky so my advice stop worrying and continue playing as you always have been the biggest advantage you can give him is to re-work your army at the same time let him stumble round with new tactics and whatnot

the mech lists have a very big fatal flaw that makes em roadkill to a good footslogger and that that they are mounted he has to stop to disgorge his warriors or risk losing the unit in the inevitable fireball that results when a tank goes boom
use this to your advantage force hime to drop his payload early and in a place of your choosing, remember also that with a great many tanks on the feild they tend to get in the wayt of eachother use this to your advantage

lastly don't be afraid to use his wreckage as cover theres nothing funnier than watching his 350 point unit of shining spears die to a 60 point guard unit cuz when he charged they were entrenched in his flacon wreckage ;Y

... oh and did i mention exorcists?
 

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The Biker Marine
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Playing against 6 Skimmers and HQ+Spiders recently I can tell you that Mech Eldar are not fun. Downright frustrating for SOB army actually. Lucky for us, there is not much points left to invest in troops, after all those shiny tanks are taken. But you are going to see the inevitable Clowns and FireDragons, so it does not take a lot Eldar to actually take out a squad of 10 SOBs...

Like stated above, a lot of shots is better than few stronger ones, problem is that Sisters either use Bolters, or Melta-equivalent guns. Not much in between, and we are going to suffer, if taking a pure SOB army. No way around this. Inducting - well, it ain’t an SOB army any more so that is not a fix, just taking another army to deal with the skimmers instead...

Minimum you need Str6 guns to deal with those, so even HBolters are not doing anything unless you get a side or back of his skimmers, which is not going to happen often, unless he is a new player... Shaken/Stunned though is good enough!
 

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The Fallen
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to be fair I would be less worried about dragons and more worried about banshee and DA squads, dragons wont reach one for one at their normal kill rates, but those two will easily
 

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Above is good stuff.

WRAITHLORDS.
That gamepiece is just insane.
(How could something that looks like an eggshell be T8?)
It should be a 0-1 choice.

Just in case he pushes one forward, I'd make sure to have a tooled up Cannoness (Evis, cloak, mantle, IP) to go after one. She needs to tap him with the IP, then do the 2+ Invuln trick, and hit with the Str8 Evis in CC. I think I'd probably sign up for the mastercrafting of the Evis as well. You can't show up with all those expensive toys, and expensive faith usage, and allow her to whiff. It's unacceptable. If you engage with him, you have to get the job done quick.

If a Wraithlord or two starts getting close, you'll need at least 1 or 2 eviscerators.
Save your faith. Most of the time you don't need much.

Don't go hunting Wraithlords.
You'd be surprised how long a faithful squad can tarpit a Wraithlord. Neutralization.

Mancatchers. I've always wanted to snag a WL in a few mancatchers. Someday.


WARP SPIDERS
Beware that Warp Spiders have Hit-n-Run just like Seraphim, so if he fields them, you have to bring this issue up and devise an agreeable system to deal with that anomaly before hand.

SKIMMER TANKS
Don't make the mistake of wasting expensive high str shots at them.
Eldar Skimmers have a few dirty tricks that give them unexpected defense.
If you're not familiar, ask after deployment what upgrades he has, and make a few notes.

Killing Skimmers is different than normal tank-hunting:
you want to hit them with redundant multiples of S5,6,or7 artillery, hoping for immobilization.
Penetration chart is not necessary (and is often downgraded to glance anyway).

Personally, I wouldn't actively hunt them. I'd passively hunt them, by planting redundant "artillery" weaponry (Autocannons/MultiLaser/Hellhoud/Heavy Bolters/Grenade Launchers) in places that block off his options. If you cheaply remove the options for his Skimmers, you've done a lot. Even little squads of ISTs with 2x Grenade Launchers are a credible threat to Eldar Skimmers.

FRAGS & KRAKS:
Don't forget that your Seraphim and your ISTs have both greanades free. So if either squad should find themselves in charge range of a skimmer that didn't move... it's like a free shot. Also, Eldar have high Init, and low armor, so take advantage of the Frags if high init Eldar are in cover. ISTs with shotguns get to plant 4 attacks (two shooting and two Init10 CC attacks) if they shoot and charge someone in cover. Remember these little exploits.


GENERAL STRATEGY

ISOLATION:
As stated above, don't get isolated.
Work your whole army as a unit.

BAIT:
Generally speaking, Eldar Armies rely upon isolating parts of your army.
You can potentially bait him into a trap with a cheap sacrificial unit.

TIME:
Don't feel like you have to bring the fight to him in a hurry.
Take your time. Keep your defenses tight. There's nothing wrong with you cautiously and slowly closing ground, because if you bring your whole army to bear on his whole army all at once, you'll win. It's perfectly OK if it takes you 5 turns to achieve this.

WEAPONS:
Also as stated above, inducted IG Autocannons are helpful.
And if you fill two IG slots, the Hellhound or Sentinels are fair choices.
(He's going to hunt your HH though, you can be sure of that.)

SHIELD of FAITH
Don't forget that it's always "on". Eldar use a lot of Psychic powers.
There is no solid definition of "minor psychic powers", so that portion of the rule is debatable, unless you want to try to make a case with the material on p. 52 to
define what a minor psychic power is supposed to be. I personally don't like that notion.
If the major/minor classification isn't stated in the owning codex, it's unclassified.
I feel like the minor/major distinction is an idea that got orphaned.
I am prepared to accept that, and that GW rules writers don't actually play the game.




Warning:
There's a potential for a big debate if Shield applies to the Veil of Tears.
A group of us debated it here for a very long time, and I was unable to establish a solid consensus in this WH forum that Shield applies to VoT. If I can't get a solid consensus on friendly turf, then it's probably not going to fly table-side.

PLEASE don't debate it here. Start a new thread if you want to go into a debate.

For what it may be worth to you, below is the position I tried.
I think it's 75% likely to be rejected, but try it if you want.

I believe that all Psychic Powers break down into two categories:
1= Psy Powers that affect the stats/dice of the Castor.
2= Psy Powers that affect the stats/dice of the enemy target.
I believe that Shield applies to #2. I believe that "Veil" is #2 type, and therefore Shield applies to Veil. I believe that the text in the Shield rule comes up deliberately short of stating that "shield only applies when sisters are being shot at in the shooting phase", and I think the language of Shield was deliberately left broad so as to accommodate a broad set of strange circumstances that are summoned by the strange set of powers that are called "Psychic".

I think I got it right, but I found that my interpretation just didn't sell.
In fact, it really seemed to offend some, so proceed with caution on that issue.
It's just a game.
 

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The Fallen
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you have a point on the shield vs veil but A) les likely to encounter vs Mech Eldar and b) I think the "It wont protect" gang were largely living in half RAW world, as an Eldar player I would accept it works
 

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The Biker Marine
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I think that the new FAQ which can be downloaded from the Adepticon site states that there are no minor psychic powers currently in game and that Shield of Faith does not work towards psychic powers that are "always on" but I only had a quick glimpse through the document, and of course it is not official, but will be used by all/most independent tournaments in the US this year...
 

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really dosn't matter either way but i thought they could i'm certain i've faced melta toting scouts before
 

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Shield of Faith does not work towards psychic powers that are "always on" but I only had a quick glimpse through the document,
I have Adeptacon Version 1.0, and mine doesn't say that.
It says that Shield of Faith is not applicable to Tyrnid Psychic Scream.
Their logic is faulty.

I think the powers that be are gimping the shield rule way too much.
It's a powerful rule, and it's already lost any affect on minor powers (the classification has been removed from all codexes). Those were its biggest teeth- completely removed!

Furthermore, minor powers are in the current book. It's not like minor powers are some ancient notion from second edition. They are mentioned by name in the 4th ed book, and are described. Most of the community agrees to discard this classification because no codeces explicitly clasify as, "minor" anymore. (Grrr).

Then to go ahead and start creating criteria for excluding more powers from the (modest) 5+ save based on critera that don't exist within the shield rule. Well that's just faulty logic, AND unbalanced. The authors of adeptacon simply swung and missed the ball.

They're making the same mistake as many players who try to fit psy powers into the framework of shooting. Sometimes they just don't fit. Because they are not shooting.
Adeptacon even went so far as to make a chart. They just don't get it.

I think if the adeptacon authors realized the classification I pointed out above (type "A" powers and type "B" powers), then they would have included the (modest) 5+ save to be applicable to the scream.

Oh well. Life goes on. I guess that GW probably went too far with the Hocus-Pocus in the first place, but I still think the Shield Rule was well written, it just took me a long time to realize it.
 
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