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As of this point in time, the favored non-dreadnought units, would be:

1. Sternguard over Terminators
2. Assault Terminators over Vanguard

I kind of have an idea why but can anybody explain this more? in terms of, maybe, Pros and cons of each units?

And...
3. Are normal Terminators still of use?


Thanks
 

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Sternguard; Pros: can be suited to more specific firing roles with special ammunition, can play specialized support roles with a variety of combi weapons and the ability to take a full squad with all special weapons, can take dedicated transports, can have heavy flamers, cheaper than the other infantry based elite units.
Cons; big point sink for only a 3+ save, are susceptible to close combat attacks, due to available weapondry will be in a lot of fire fights which can make them ideal targets for the enemy, 5th edition favors cover which will increase survivability of most enemy targets

Terminators; Pros: Have a lot of very mobile fire power, can move and fire all weapons at full strength, very difficult to kill even with AP2+ weapons, armed standard with power fists, can ALWAYS start in reserves and can be used for any role using it's deepstrike, can be equipped to take on any target your enemy can muster, high survivability and can easily handle most of the opponents' forcers stand alone.
Cons Costs 40 points a model, despite fire power lacks significant down range ability, usually becomes a high priority for the opponent, can be killed in close combat before the ability of retaliation, weapon upgrades are also fairly expensive and cannot carry more than one special weapon per five models, can only be given a landraider as a transport option

Assault Terminators; Pros: Can easily massacre any unit in close combat, with the two assault land raider options can be carried to the battle with high survivability and can assault after disembarking from them, lightning claws and thunder hammers...enough said, hard to shoot down before they hit CC, can have a perminant 3+ invul save.
Cons: Despite strong armour can be fragile if not used properly, has no ranged capability, if deepstriked it needs to be close to enemy to be profficient and can easily scatter into the enemy and die, the land raider options are very expensive, can no longer consolidate back into close combat making them more susceptible to enemy fire, will be at the top of your opponent's "to kill list."

Are terminators still useful? I'd think so. They are less powerful than before and cost more to get the same amount of special weapons, but with their strong armour and the ability to move around all that fire power while still being a threat in close combat is a good reason to keep them around. Granted you may want to focus more on troop choices for obvious reasons. However the new rules favor mobility and not much is more mobile than termniators especially when you can always deepstrike them to right where you need the blow to be dealt.

So really it depends on the role, sternguards for strong and cheaper fire support to fit 1 role, terminators for multi purpose combat, and assault terminators for when you need to get into close combat with something that won't die fast. However I've never used my marines since the 5th edition or the new codex this is all at first glance so I hope someone with 5th edition experience can give you greater insight.
 
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Lord of Shadows
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I've only got a couple of points more to make fella.

First up, Vanguard are fast attack options, not elite =)

Next, sternguard with their mass of ammo options really will die to close combat, even with their extra attack. I would have honestly rather seen these 'expert shooters' with a higher BS than an extra attack compared to a basic marine. That said though, they do fair well against horde armies.

Termies do still die to mass fire. A friend playing a BA list lost 5 termies against me in a single turn entirely to bolter fire (2x tac squads in rapid fire range). Not bad considering i had 30+ other marines on the board aiming at other targets...

Assault termies with lightning claws attached to a termie chappy jumping out of an LRC hits so hard most horde armies will run away and cry

Finally, could i advise Master Lucius to read page 101 of the 5th ed marine codex to check on the invuln save granted by a storm shield ;)

Cheers,

CR
 

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Then Sternguards he was referring to are in the elite option on page 136 of the marine codex, I had almost made that mistake too when posting this. And thank you for pointing out the invunlerable save. I didn't know that they increased it to a 3+ on the storm shield. I might have to buy me a few of them now I think.
 

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OMG! Ranged attacks too HA! Now that's sexy. Suddenly I'm not so upset about the combat shield :p
 

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let me give it a go :D

Sternguard veterans - special ammunition gives the the ability to counter any non-vehicle unit in the game. Ability to buy combi-weapons and heavy weapons at low prices. Consider these bad mothers as a super tactical squad. A little higher point cost and still a 3+ save but that's they have that special ammo. A higher BS would be an overkill in my opinion, they are great the way they are.

Terminator squad - Marines with a super armor and a great support weapon (cyclone). Heavy flamer is great when deepstriking into a horde of tyranids and sadly the ass cannon has lost its charm. Use for supporting firepower and nothing else (or charge in CC when desperate ;D)

Terminator assault squad - Say "I don't care about lightning claws" and arm them with Thunder hammer/storm shields. Will soak up every AP2 firepower, will soak up even 3 vindicator shots without a scratch and will still stand to every tyranid and chaos monstrosity they encounter. The only unit that has 3+ inv combined with str8 power weapon! Can also be used as a decoy to lure the firepower away from other units.

Techmarines - in my opinion, still don't find much use in an army, servitors are terrible (cost as much as a devastator when armed with a weapon but with guardsman stats, no thank you). Great model though :D !
 

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Sternguard: Highly versatile shooters that can take anything on and win. Marines? AP3 bolters. Orks? Cover ignoring bolters. Tau? 30" AP4 bolters MC? 2+ to wound bolters. Anything else is handled by combi-weapons (don't negate their special bolters) and heavy weapons (which they get cheaper than Devastators!). I like 4 combi-meltas and 2 HFs with a powerfist for backup. Lotsa dakka, good against tanks, exceptional against infantry, and a powerfist and 2A each in case things get hairy. Kantor makes them even better. They do die like normal marines and can get pricey, so be careful.

Terminators: Cheaper, still plenty of dakka, and get dedicated Land Raiders (up to 5 in one army!). Assault Cannon got nerfed, as did overall firepower. However, the cyclone wins as it maintains the same level of firepower for cheaper!

Assault Terminators: /Codex. TH/SS Termies win so hard it isn't even funny.

Techmarines: Not Terminators, Dreads, or Sternguard, sorry.

Servitors: lol

Legion of the Damned: Quite a good, if underrated unit. They can soak tons of heavy firepower but die like normal to basic weaponry. They are expensive, but DSing accurately and firing heavy weapons on the mood is never unwelcome. Their biggest downside is not being Terminators, Dreads, or Sternguard.
 

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Ah yes, I forgot about the Legion.

They seem nice, but with a 3+ inv save and no power weapons they die just like normal marines. Good for bogging down big bad things in close combat and for mobile long range firepower, but because of the expensive weapon options I tend to take sternguard with combi-weapons or Terminators with Cyclone. Much more effective.
 
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