Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Born from Tears of Angels
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Which do you think is better for transportation/infantry support??? I play Ilyanden so I like Wave serpents but I never used a falcon in my life so want to hear what you think?
 

·
Slave to the flesh
Joined
·
3,354 Posts
Falcons can be very tough but they are let down as transports beacuse of limited capacity. They can also be very expensive but they are resilient.

I would use them on small squads like banshees so they can make combat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,023 Posts
As to almost all questions, it depends. For banshees-waveserpents, as banshees need numbers to be effective. For a seer council or flamer squad of guardians of anti tank fire dragons the falcon is your bet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
Falcons:
Super Heavy anti infantry and light vehicle vehicle support that will likely never be destroyed. Use as a transport for fire dragons or seer councils. It offers the best protection to its occupants.

Wave Serpent:
Versatile but slightly more fragile than the falcon. However, it is definitely better suited to the transport troops, especially for Iyanden. It serves as a great bright lance platform or anti infantry platform, the latter is good for supporting the infantry it is carrying when they disembark.
 

·
Son of LO
Joined
·
3,475 Posts
Falcons are better then wave serpents in my opinion. They have far superior fire power and slightly better resilience. They can still move as fast and transport some units.

Wave serpents are obviously far superior transports thats why they still have a place in our codex but i would still choose a falcon over a wave serpent except for big squads of banshees or wraithguard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,263 Posts
i like falcons better as the more shots helps but the guys are right in saying the waveserpent is the transporter so i think it will never be resolved it's like the question of which is better razorback or rhino and the answer simply is whichever works for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
If you're playing Iyanden, then the only thing that CAN transport you troops is the Wave Serpent. The falcon can's transport wraithguard at all, so unless you moving a small squad of fire dragons or storm guardians with flamers, keep the falcons for mobile resilient fire support and stick to the Wave serpent for moving troops.
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
Falcons should IMO not be used as transports, unless you want to put a little Storm Guardian flamer squad in it. They're tanks and should be used as such.

Wave Serpent is the **** for transporting Aspect warriors and Wraithguard, I don't even agree with the "6-Fire dragons in Falcon" school.

In the end, they have different jobs and shouldn't need to be compared.
 

·
Born from Tears of Angels
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys so I guess its up to both of my serpents to carry the wraithguard, do you still think the falcon should be kept as a sniper in the back or should I replace it with another wrathlord?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,023 Posts
WraithGuardian said:
Thanks guys so I guess its up to both of my serpents to carry the wraithguard, do you still think the falcon should be kept as a sniper in the back or should I replace it with another wrathlord?
I run my falcons to the front of the lines. I've lost 3 in 20 battles. Drop of a squad and give it support.

And a falcon will get your troops there much more reliably than a wave serpent. But, you can only take certain squads, and smaller sizes.

Again, depends on your playstyle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
Viktor said:
Wave Serpent is the **** for transporting Aspect warriors and Wraithguard, I don't even agree with the "6-Fire dragons in Falcon" school..
6 fire dragons are a perfectly sized anti tank squad. Vs. heavy AV 14 tanks they get 2 penetrating hits on average in my experience. Against a marine squad they have just enough power with the falcon's support to totally destroy it. 10 fire dragons in a Wave serpent is overkill(In the case of anti roles and the destroying of marine squads). If you lower the number of fire dragons, you still have to consider that the wave serpent is still more vulnerable than the falcon.

I can however see you taking a Serpent instead of a falcon for the following reasons:
-You've used up all your heavy support slots and any falcons you may have taken are full.
-You need another bright lance platform (seeing as how this is specifically a fire dragon transport in this case, the overkill would come to mind again. Starcannons, I think, would be better suited to support dragons)
-You own a wave serpent but not a falcon.

Note that all this is pertaining to fire dragons only. Other aspects do better with a serpent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
655 Posts
What would you put in a Wave Serpent?

This has been touched on slightly already, so I thought I would continue the discussion instead of starting another thread. I'm not wondering if I should take a Falcon or Wave Serpent, but rather what to use each for.

As far as I can tell, good candidates for hitching a ride in a WS are a squad of Scorpions, Banshees, or Wraithguard. I've considered Guardians as well since they're roughly half the points, and I'm mostly interested in just putting a third tank on the table. What are people's experiences?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
As I have said before, Falcons are one of the best tanks in the game, but are ill suited to take of behemoths like a land raider or monolith. Falcons will be able to take on everything except those two kinds of tanks. The holofield they take combined with the fast skimmer rule that makes all penetrating hits glancing hits make these tanks nigh indestructible.

Wave serpents have the advantage of taking a twin-linked weapon, increasing their accuracy, and making them an excellent choice for mounting one shot heavy weapons aka bright lances. These can destroy land raiders and monoliths as well as any other tank but will also be less effective against infantry. There's also the fact that it cannot take holofield which makes it more delicate.

In the end, if I were to take a third tank I would definitely take a falcon. If I were to take a fourth tank, I would take a serpent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I usually play against SM and I play Ulthwë. I know the original question was from a Iyanden player and probably his Heavy Support is already full so max 1 Falcon.

I use 2 Falcons and 1 Wave Serpent in 1500 pts or more. I full the Wave Serpents with a 10 Squad of Fire Dragons for SM squad killing (very effective if you upgrade the Wave Serpent to Shuriken Canon and twin-linked Starcannon).

One Falcon will be empty and the other one will have six Banshee. While that many banshee won't kill many marines, the Falcon are really hard to kill so I can keep them hidden in there a good time then surprise my opponent by onloading them where they will hurt.

The use of the Falcon and the Wave Serpent really depend of your opponent. Against IG I full my Wave Serpent with a Witch Blade armed Seer Council. Against Tau, I full it of Banshee and just use the Falcon as tanks. Against Dark Eldar, no need of transports. Against Necrons, same as against SM. I don't play against orks.
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
hsin_dragon said:
6 fire dragons are a perfectly sized anti tank squad. Vs. heavy AV 14 tanks they get 2 penetrating hits on average in my experience. Against a marine squad they have just enough power with the falcon's support to totally destroy it. 10 fire dragons in a Wave serpent is overkill(In the case of anti roles and the destroying of marine squads). If you lower the number of fire dragons, you still have to consider that the wave serpent is still more vulnerable than the falcon.
Yes they are a good anti-tank squad, but really, against marines they are not overkill when maxed out at 10. 10 Fire Dragons will kill about 5,5 marines, the Wave Serpent will kill 2.1 marines (TL Star cannon and TL shuriken catapult) = 7.3 marines, even this combo needs more help to take down marine squads. Definately not overkill.

Falcon (Star cannon, TL Shuricats) + 6 Dragons will kill about 2.3 + 3.4 = 5.7 Marines, still good, but you do not need the str 8 rng 48 of the pulse laser to do this.

I'm still not convinced, even though the Wave Serpent is more fragile... I don't like the idea.

Falcon = tank
Wave Serpent = transport vehicle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
WraithGuardian said:
You think putting HQ in the falcon might be a good idea??
The Falcon will probably deliver your Farseer where you want him to be but you will miss most of the usefulness of the Farseer which being eitheir giving accuracy or durability to a squad. If you were playing Ulthwë you could use the Falcon to deliver a small close combat seer council but if you have only a Farseer, either make him start with a squad of Aspect Warriors (to Fortune them) or near a powerful shooty unit (to guide it).

As it was already said many time in this thread the Falcon is a tank and the Wave Serpent a transport. The Falcon should be used to surprise the opponent with a small hard hiting unit (like 6 banshee). In objectives game you can also use the Falcon to deliver a Small unit to a far away, less protected objective and drop the banshee on it.
 

·
Favored of Tzeentch
Joined
·
3,140 Posts
malempo said:
The Falcon will probably deliver your Farseer where you want him to be but you will miss most of the usefulness of the Farseer which being eitheir giving accuracy or durability to a squad. If you were playing Ulthwë you could use the Falcon to deliver a small close combat seer council but if you have only a Farseer, either make him start with a squad of Aspect Warriors (to Fortune them) or near a powerful shooty unit (to guide it)..
Amen to that. *agrees*

malempo said:
The Falcon should be used to surprise the opponent with a small hard hiting unit (like 6 banshee). In objectives game you can also use the Falcon to deliver a Small unit to a far away, less protected objective and drop the banshee on it.
But not to that, IMO a banshee squad needs to be big in order to not get caught in prolonged combat. This room is best reserved for a Storm Guardian flamer squad since they can be effective without being many.
 

·
señor brushman!
Joined
·
1,434 Posts
But not to that, IMO a banshee squad needs to be big in order to not get caught in prolonged combat. This room is best reserved for a Storm Guardian flamer squad since they can be effective without being many.
I agree, although I also think 6 Fire Dragons in a Falcon can work well too. Also, in some games i'll put my Seer Council in the Falcon. Everything else that you might need to transport would probally be better off with a Wave Serpant.

~Ben
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top