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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Map = 7. Chaos Wastes

First Turn = Phoenix

Legion of the Scorpion King

Tomb King
Collar of Shapesh
Armour of the Ages
Vambraces of the Sun
Great Weapon
Shield

Hierophant
Cloak of the Dunes
Hieratic Jar

Liche Priest
Skeletal Steed
Staff of Ravening

Liche Priest
Casket of Souls
Golden Ankhra

3 Chariots

3 Chariots

24 Skeleton Warriors
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of the Undying Legion

20 Skeleton warriors
Musician

1 Scarab Swarm

4 Ushabti

5 Carrion

Tomb Scorpion

Tomb Scorpion

Screaming Skull Catapult 110pts
Skulls of the Foe

Incantation Dice: 2x1D6 + 4x2D6
Bound Spells: 1xPL3 + 1xPL4
Power Dice: 2
Dispel Dice: 5 (and -1 to enemy casting rolls)

Collar of Shapesh:- Transfer a wound on a roll of 4+ to a model within 4”

Armour of the Ages – 5+ armour save, +1 wound

Vambraces of the Sun – 1 model in base contact loses 1 attack

Cloak of the Dunes – May fly

Hieratic Jar – Cast 1 extra spell for one turn

Staff of Ravening – Bound level 4, range 18”, 3D6 Str 2 hits

Golden Ankhra – 4+ ward

Banner of the Undying Legion – Bound lvl 3. Casts summoning spell on unit.

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The Self-Perpetuating Wuggles Device

Necrarch Vampire Count with Wrist Bands of Black Gold, Nehekara's Noble Blood, Master of the Black Arts (lvl 3 wizard after lvl 2 upgrade)- 335 pts

lvl 2 Necromancer w/ Book of Arkhan- 125 pts

lvl 2 Necromancer w/ Black Periapt- 115 pts

lvl 2 Necromancer w/ 2x Dispel Scrolls- 150 pts

20 Skeletons w/ Light Armor

20 Skeletons w/ Light Armor

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

8 Ghouls

6 Black Knights with Banner of the Barrows, Barding- 211 pts

6 Black Knights with Barding

6 Black Knights with Barding

3 Spirit Hosts

Banshee

3 Ogre Leadbelchers

TOTAL: 2250 pts
11 power dice
7 dispel dice (2 Dispel Scrolls)

I can have either 12 power dice or 8 dispel dice, depending on how I use the Black Periapt.

Wrist Bands of Black Gold- 3+ Ward Save against missiles of all types

Master of the Black Arts- all spells he casts add 6" to their range

Banner of the Barrows- All the Wights in the unit hit on 3+... ALWAYS!!!

Black Periapt- save an unused Power or Dispel die to be used in the next magic phase as eiter a dispel or power die.

Book of Arkhan- Free Danse Macabre every magic phase!
 

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King of Librarium's Tombs
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First turn AND a nice hill to base my deployment around. What else could i possibly want :)

Casket and SSC will go on the hill (Duh!) with the archers beginning the game infront at the base of the hill, ranked 10 wide. They can reform to combat units later. The swarm will be hanging around on the hill, likely inbetween, and just infront of, the SSC and Casket. It will be useful for charging and invaders of said hill (e.g banshee, see below)
I have no reason to advance towards the VC from my position so i can let them come.

The SSC will make the VC Knights its primary targets, with the Leadbelchers also being aimed for if they become a threat. the Leadbelchers will be affected by the Caskets special rule too, likely fleeing as a result. Though their short range should keep them quiet for a while, and the Carrion can march block them while i concentrate on the Knights.

Nothing will be using ICFB in this game, the Scorps instead starting amongst my lines and aiming to hit the Cav in combat, looking for Flank Charges and Killing Blows. Also they will be handy for running down the Ghouls and Wolves, as will the Carrion. (1st turn charge anyone? May as well get them straight in there causing havoc) From there they should be able to work well on march blocking too.

The Skellie archers will be aiming to pick off whatever they can. Most likely Wolves and Ghouls, as they are the easiest for them to be wounding.


On to magic... My TK dominance looks not too brilliant, and given in the first two turns the Scrolls will proabably be used to stop the Casket then i am willing to accept i may not get much magicing done early on.

However in my 3rd turn, and possibly even my 2nd aswell, the Scrolls will be gone. And if that Casket comes off in either phase, there are a lot of VC to be killed by it. Considering small unit size / Low Ld / Both, it will do quite a lot of damage even by just being activated once.

The Staff of Ravening will be concentrating on the Spirit Hosts, they are easy enough to wound with it, leaving the more deadly attacks to go elsewhere.

As far as the VC magic offense is concerned 11/12 power dice may look dominating. But dont forget, the VC have to roll for their spells to begin with. Then they have to roll to cast, which may be unsuccessful. Also their rolls are all at -1 due to the casket.

Being undead too i will likely be able to let the early undead raising spells go. The Skellies/Zombies will be coming to me, and and unit growth or new unit creation wont bother me too much, even when they do get into combat. The high Strength of the Ushabti, wounds from Chariot impact hits, and my own Skellie static res should safely see them crumble.

To begin with ill concentrate on the dispelling of the VC offensive spells. Then when the VC castes are dead or close up, and once the zombie purging has begun, then i can start concentrating on preventing resurrection as i simultaneously kill them off.


The Banshee is no worry at all, its Scream doesnt affect Immune to Psych units (i.e my entire army) If it gets too close though, ill throw a Magic missile or the Scarab Swarm at it, dont want it charging my Casket now do we? ;)

The Ushabti will be perfect for going up against anyof the VC units. Negating the armour of the Knights, mass zombie / skellie killing. They will be a great combat unit for me here.

If i get the chance ill be looking for possible assassination of the Necros with my Scorpions. My King should be unmatched in combat too. The V Count is a good combat character as well as caster, iirc, but he isnt built for combat wargear wise, giving my King the edge and good chance of lots of kills across the board.
 

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I've had enough!
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I think they described a battle like this on the GW website as a 'retard slap fight'....

Im giving this to the tomb kings, mainly for the ushabti and scorpions. Ushabti can deal with ALL of the undead units, and with WS4, S6, we're talking some massice killing.

Then, with a lack of a save of his Lord, scorps should be able to target him at some point, sending the army crumbling.

The casket comes into it's own, too, here, with lots of low LD units. When it does go off, its gonna be one big bang.

What could save the VC's here is the ability to raise new units, but I htink the casket should keep that in check

Tim
 

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Wow, tough battle...

Ok, so my Ogres will be deployed across from the Ushabti. Luckily for me, they aren't affeced by things that case fear, seeing as ow they cause fear themslves. If the Usabti charge, I can actually stand and shoot for once. Extra movement on my knights, too, granted by Danse Acabre and the Book of Arkhan should prove to be extremely useful for getting the charge on those pesky scorpions. My spirit hosts will be extremely useful for blocking charges from skeletons and carrion, as their etherial rule negates their attacks, and as long as I cause a few wounds with them (not unlikely with 12 attacks) I should be ok.

My black knights are, without a doubt, some pretty potent can openers. 3 units of 6 knights that have Str6 on the charge and a 2+ save is pretty damn good. His lord, to be honest, is pretty worrisome, but I think that a combination of magic and hardhitting units can take care of him. His heiropant is extremely well-protected, but mine is as well, surrounded by undead units and with necromancers at his call to raise some more. Don't forget they can heal him!

The casket is a problem I can't easily deal with. Once I run out of dispel scrolls to get rid of its effects, I'll be saving a power die (yes, a precious, precious power die) each turn to change to a dispel die. His magic is something I need to get rid of, and quickly. Luckily, his spells aren't terribly hard to dispel, but he automatically casts all of them. Still, I have a stronger magic phase, and to this effect I'll be raising as many zombies s possible to bog down his tougher units and to protect my casters. I'm fairly sure that my Doom and Darkness spell affects his army, which means that when he's rolling to see how many of his troops die due to losing combat in a speciic unit that I cast it on, they take -3 to that roll.

Screaming Skull Catapult is not going to be fun to deal with... luckily, I'll be at him within a couple turns, so the damage should't be all too terrible. Also, the causing fear thing is completely wasted on me. Also, the invocation that lets it shoot extra will be my top dispelling priority.

All in all, although this is going to be a very tough battle, I think that my superior magic and my Knights/Ogres can break things fairly easily on the charge. 4 scary charging units are better than a unit of Ushabti and a couple scorpions.
 

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/botnobot/
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Okay, this is how I see it.

Terrain favors the TK. That big hill gives LoS to a lot of magical attacks from the TKs. I think Phoenix overlooked targeting the spirit hosts. They would go down sooner than the black knights, though you are certainly poised to do a lot of damage.

Even so, the necromancers will likely have at least 1 if not 2 solidly successful magic phases. This will hurt the TK not through direct damage but through summoning large units under the old rulebook.

Still, I see necromancers finding it difficult to hide from carrion and scorpions, but turn 4 or 5, the VC magic will be reduced..

And then who knows which general might be killed? TK never have to worry about miscasts. It's a really tough battle, but I think smart, conservative play from the TK will win the battle of undead untrition.

It's a really tough battle, and one I never liked playing when I was a VC general.

I'm going to give a slight edge to Tomb Kings in the later turns. Good job to both of you. That was one of the most difficult decisions I made in votewar (which means very little ;)).



 

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Very close, attritional battle on our hands here that could go either way. The computers playing up right now so I can't see the map (and this is my second attempt at posting), but from what I know, it's Phoenix that has the upper hand here.

But looking at Wuggles list there, a Lvl3 Necrach Vamp, and 3 Lvl2 Necros will enjoy the magic phase, especially as Phoenix has no scrolls. VCs have access to some excellent support spells and some nasty Direct damage spells. As Undeads strengths include magic almost to the point of reliance, the dominance here could decide who wins the game.

As for attrition, the Vamps are better at bringing up new figures, so that's a minor advantage there.

Then there's the Ogres. One shoot phase up close will hurt the Tomb Kings. The Carrion will only be hecklers, and IMO will be seen off with one good magic phase, be it with the Gaze of Nagash or a good Danse Macabre. Again, the Ushabti should be seen of with enough concentration of fire/magic. If that fails, the Black Knights will do much damage with their longer charge range.

So, my vote lies with Wuggles at risk of a bricking, but it's a very close match and could go either way.

-AFG
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok my history with Undead v. Undead in any form is it comes down to special and rare choices. Also in a TK v. VC match, I think the TK troops have a slight edge early due to the fact that they have range weapons.

So we have 4 Ushabti, 2 Scorps, 5 Carrion, a SSC and a Casket v. 3 groups of knights, some spirit hosts, banshees and Leadbelchers.

Honestly the Ushabti and Scorps are going to eat up mosst of the VC stuff here. The knights will be effective, but I don't think they are going to be able to wipe out 4 Ushabti on 1 charge, after which, the Ushabti will just heal and keep pounding away at the VC.

The Casket and SSC are going to hurt as well. If the VC bunch up to all march, they are a very juicy SSC target. If they spread out, the Casket is going to hurt like hell since the skeletons will be rolling at their regular Ld.

I don't think the Vampires are going to have a fun time in this game.

Legion of the Scorpion King
 

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This is a nasty battle of attrition isn't it. VC with superior numbers and a mean magic phase, and the TK with an equally cruel magic phase and some really annoying shooting.

The fact that the Tomb Kings have that hill is a distinct advantage for them. From their, the catapult and casket will have line of sight on almost the entire battlefield, allowing them, if the spells are cast of course, to rain hell on the VC's.

The VC's do have a screen though, with a high number of wounds that can be healed, in the spirit hosts, and could raise small units to block line of sight to the casket if needed, seriously reducing it's effectiveness. They also have a lot of fast units, that, if they can keep the casket from firing for 2-3 turns, could go in and engage it in combat, again reducing its output.

In the end, this one will be tight, but, as you can use the generals ld to save against casket wounds, and wuggles will advance in a tight formation with the general near the centre means, that even if the casket gets off, he should be able to take the hit, and then repair his units.

Always remember, that the VC units can become bigger than their original numbers. The TK cannot, and the TK can't raise new units either.

I am giving this to the VC, but only just.

ninja out
 
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