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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Commander-
Pure of Heart Honour, Reaver Bow, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Hand Weapon
-126pts.-

Battle Standard Bearer-
Battle Banner, Dragon Armour, Hand Weapon, (goes with Swordmaster unit)
-179pts.-

Mage-
Level 1, Channeler Honour, Ring of Fury, Silver Wand
-145pts.-

10 Archers-
Hand Weapon, Longbow
-120pts.-

10 Archers-
Hand Weapon, Longbow
-120pts.-

16 Spearmen-
Full Command
-206pts.-

8 Silver Helms-
Hand Weapon, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, Full Command, War Banner
-239pts.-

5 Ellyrian Reavers-
Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Spear, Elven Steed, Standard Bearer, Musician
-111pts.-

19 Sword Masters-
Two-Handed Sword(Great Weapon), Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Purifying Flame
-342pts.-

1 Tiranoc Chariot-
Hand Weapon, Spear, bow
-85pts.-

5 Shadow warriors
-75pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-

Total -2000pts.-

PERFECT MATCH!!!!?????
 

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Ok dude. my 2cents:

Magic is going to destroy you. Before we get to the other stuff, you must fix you magic phase. You need at least two mages, or one archmage, you need scrolls and more md then 3 pd.

your commanders: the reaver one is fine, but the battle banner must be on a horse. Think about it: hes as easy to kill as two spear elfs.....thats not very good odds.

one unit of archers is enough. they are st3. not going to do much beside eat a rank bonus/ fast cav/ wolf unit... if you have too many you run out of places to put them.

those silverhelms should be dropped to 5, or split into two units of 5. Once your opponent kills one, you have 3 guys in the back rank doing nothing. and the standard too.

drop standard on ellyrion reavers

boost spears to 20, give em war banner

try to find points for another eagle and chariot.

....anyways....make some changes and then ill get into the details.
 

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hello,

first things first.

(no not a perfect match)

GET BETTER MAGIC, YOU ARE A HE!
at least get two mages (prefferebly lv2)

give your bsb more protection, your opponent will target him with everthing he has in cc.
(maybe AoG)

drop at least 1 unit af archers. and if you play a lot of t 4 opponents drop them both.
use the points for an extra Cc unit (spearmen)


get another Tiranoc chariot and maybe another eagle.

well thats all i can think of right now. Do with it what you want


Good Hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
oki hehe far from perfect list :shifty:

about the BSB i am not putting him on a bloody horse because he is meant to reinforce the swordmasters, so i will have to give him better protection

i cant give more men to the spearmen... simply because i dont have spare spearmen..

so i basically am getting rid of one archer group (not 2... ive got one fully painted) the standard on the reavers...

and thats gonna free up about 130+ points...
i need to choose out of all this stuff now...

  • another lvl2 mage
  • make the first one a lvl2 (even tho he kinda is like a lvl2 one already)
  • extra chariot
  • extra eagle
  • 2 units of 5 silverhelms :wacko:
  • warbanner in spearelves unit

what shall i choose bearing in mind that i must keep list at 2000pts?

pleas help this was is my first list and im abit of a n00b to HE
 

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i think you did reasonably well for a newb but you like alot of he (myself included till alittle while ago) are trying to have a all round list unfortunately he don't do terribly well at everything however they can kickbutt at doing one thing, so what i'm getting at is drop alot of the shooting and go all out on cc or vice versa, i find in 2000 points a unit of archers (cus the models look sooo cool) and 2 rbt's (seriously does anyone NOT take these) is all you need then make a lv2 and give loremaster or radient gem of hoeth to a few guys to increase your dispell and gen magic count.


also reavers suck!
 

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yeh, reavers don't live long.
As soon as my aopponet saw them speeding 18 inch across the field the sent a big rock atop of them:(

bloody rock lobbers....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
drop the reavers now? aw mannnn

ok ill post tommorow with a new updated list...

ARGH
 

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Reavers most certainly do not suck, IMO they are one of those 'first into the list' things like bolt throwers, eagles and the eagle commander. On paper, they may seem bad, and charging them a full 18" towards rock lobbas probably isn't the best idea, but if you use them properly then they will serve you extremely well. Use them like armoured cavalry and they get pasted, sue them like fast cavalry, akin to the way you use eagles except with the added benifit of useful flank charges, and they will prove very worthwhile.

Archers, now they suck. Take one unit maximum.. And get rid of the banner on your reavers, they don't need it and it just loses VP when they die.
 

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nope they cost waaay too much for what they do it's usally cheaper to feild silver helms and they won't crumple when in combat, reavers are good in a 5 man shooter role to harass the enemy but shadow warriors do this better and cheaper
 

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A unit of 5 with a musician costs less than 100 points, I've had a unit running rings around infantry keeping a full ranked up regiment distrtacted for the entire battle, sometimes two units if I'm lucky. No shadow warrior unit can do that, they simply aren't quick enough. Reavers in trouble? They're half way across the board before you can blink an eye. Shadow warriors in trouble? Leave them to die or rescue them.

Reavers, IMO, are far more versatile and useful than shadow warriors. Reavers can also negate ranks when they hit a flank, while SW can't since they're skirmishers. And reavers are far more likely to get there too since they're faster.

Reavers won't crumple in combat if you know where to put them. Sure they won't be able to charge the front of a unit, but neither can shadow warriors. Thats not what they're good for. Hit weak things like gobbos in the flank and you should be able to win, hit harder things as support while your other units hit the front and you'll improve your chances greatly. All units in support for an Elven force.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
new list people with added chariot, eagle, spearelves, lvl2 mage...

can i use 10 points from somewhere?


Commander-
Pure of Heart Honour, Reaver Bow, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Hand Weapon
-126pts.-

Battle Standard Bearer-
Battle Banner, Armour of the Gods, Hand Weapon, (goes w/ Swordmaster unit)
-208pts.-

Mage-
Level 2, Channeler Honour, Ring of Fury, Silver Wand, (which lore of magic you choose depends on which army you battle)
-180pts.-

10 Archers-
Hand Weapon, Longbow
-120pts.-

20 Spearmen-
Full Command
-250pts.-

8 Silver Helms-
Hand Weapon, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, Full Command, War Banner
-239pts.-

5 Ellyrian Reavers-
Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Spear, Elven Steed, Standard Bearer, Musician
-111pts.-

19 Sword Masters-
Two-Handed Sword(Great Weapon), Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Purifying Flame
-342pts.-

1 Tiranoc Chariot-
Hand Weapon, Spear, bow
-85pts.-


1 Tiranoc Chariot-
Hand Weapon, Spear, bow
-85pts.-

5 Shadow warriors
-75pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-


Total -2010pts.-

right Lord Anathir and co, what else?
(my poor reavers :cry: )
 

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crucial said:
can i use 10 points from somewhere?
Right now your list is at 2,121 points. Are you dropping the Reavers to get to 2,010 pionts? If so drop 1 Spearman and put your hero in with them or drop the Ring of Fury and pick up a disspel scrol with your mage.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hightide said:
Right now your list is at 2,121 points. Are you dropping the Reavers to get to 2,010 pionts? If so drop 1 Spearman and put your hero in with them or drop the Ring of Fury and pick up a disspel scrol with your mage.

Good luck
woah forgot about that,
right heres the list then... with no reavers :sleep:

can my commander fire when hes in a unit?
isnt he in more danger being in a unit that just sitting back with his bow?
would'nt he be really crap at fighting with his shoddy equipment (hes meant to be shooting from afar)?
can i fire the reaver bow while moving in the spearmen unit?
do you all love me?
i need a dispell scroll, can any character have them or only mages?
if a guy dies with his dispell scroll unused is it lost and cannot be used?

Commander-
Pure of Heart Honour, Reaver Bow, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Hand Weapon
-126pts.-

Battle Standard Bearer-
Battle Banner, Armour of the Gods, Hand Weapon, (goes w/ Swordmaster unit)
-208pts.-

Mage-
Level 2, Channeler Honour, Ring of Fury, Silver Wand, (which lore of magic you choose depends on which army you battle)
-180pts.-

10 Archers-
Hand Weapon, Longbow
-120pts.-

20 Spearmen-
Full Command
-250pts.-

8 Silver Helms-
Hand Weapon, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, Full Command, War Banner
-239pts.-

19 Sword Masters-
Two-Handed Sword(Great Weapon), Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Purifying Flame
-342pts.-

1 Tiranoc Chariot-
Hand Weapon, Spear, bow
-85pts.-

1 Tiranoc Chariot-
Hand Weapon, Spear, bow
-85pts.-

5 Shadow warriors
-75pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-

Total -2010pts.-
 

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I would trade the BSB for a mage and then have the mages look like this:
LVL 2 - channeller - seer - silver wand - 180 pts
LVL 2 - ring of fury - jewel of the dusk - 175 pts

Change the silver helms to 2 units of 5 without any command

trade 1 chariot for 5 Elliryan reavers (no upgrades)

Give the commander with the reaver bow a lance ans stick him in the remaining chariot (chariot never marches so he can always shoot unless in CC)

Should be pretty close in points.
 

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drop the archers, and get another mage

archers wont do much harm, at least i ve never seen them destroying more then they cost.

An empire handgunner does much better work for just 8 pt's (just to compare)
 

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ok...some more details now:

you have to know how to save some points:

1) your reaver bow commander currently has a 3+ AS and 3 st4 attacks. Downgrade the dragon armor to heavy armor and drop the enchanted shield. You got a 3+ AS without anyways becaues hand wepeon + sheild gives you a +1 AS anyways. Just like that you got yourself 12 points!! (12....for the tally)

split the helms into two units of 5 with no command at all. that gives you two units that hit harder on the charge. and it saves you 9 points (9)

(so thats 21 pts)

about the battle banner guy, to start off, he is illegal. You cant have both a magical banner and magical equipment. Second, he is very very, unbelievably easy to kill. with the battle banner, you can only get a 5+ AS max, and wih T3, that isnt very good. High Elf combat characters on foot are no-no's. I love the battle banner, but seeing as you have horrible magic defense, drop both lvl2s and get an archmage with lvl4, 3 scrolls, ring of fury, silverwand)....saves you some points, gets you ld 9 general for sure, ensures you get all the 5/6 spells of the lore you choose, doesnt need channeller, etc.

On a side note, you could drop the shadow warriors and get your special unit of reavers (since you like them so much) .... but just 5 with no bows, no command....just a dirt cheap 90 point unit. the 21 points from above + the magic changes will offset the price.

your Questions:
can my commander fire when hes in a unit? yes, but with limited line of sight
isnt he in more danger being in a unit that just sitting back with his bow? not really, if he is outside and beside the unit, he cant be targetted anyways in magic and shooting
would'nt he be really crap at fighting with his shoddy equipment (hes meant to be shooting from afar)? yes, but pay 4 points for a great weapon, and he could add a punch to either your SM or Silverhelms. Also, if your mage chooses lore of shadow, and steed of shadows, you could have your commander fly into lone mages, small units like dogs, etc.
can i fire the reaver bow while moving in the spearmen unit? yes, but he cant move more then 5 inches
i need a dispell scroll, can any character have them or only mages? only mages, read above for magic defense
if a guy dies with his dispell scroll unused is it lost and cannot be used? it is lost.



***I took another look at your list and noticed it has a lot of similaries to my own list which i will be using. This is a copy of a post i made on another forum a while ago, and since i know the mods dont like posting links to other forums, here it is:

Until now, I have followed the popular belief that elite infantry are meant to be used in small units (flanking), relying on kills to win combat rather then static combat resolution. However, after considering the possiblities, I have come to the conclusion that 5 SH and a chariot simply do it better then 12 swordmasters in the flank: they hit harder, higher unit strength, higher movement, better armor. All for just a few points more expensive. So that brought me to consider where elite infantry really stands in the high elf army. Comparing a block of swordmasters to a block of spearelves, for 40 more points you get a unit that is always st5, the same armor, and ensures that any unit charging will always hit on 4s, greatly reducing the number of casualties. Additionaly, once they have taken in the charge, they are actually somewhat able to stand up for themselves in a battle of attrition against *some* opponents.

The list itself is meant to stand up to any opposition. I tried to focus a little bit more on supportive magic rather then the normal 11 Pd + rings. I see the shooting as the stuff thats supposed to kill things, and the magic as supporting your units. Thus said, if i can kill mages, my magic phase will start to eat things as well. And also, with only 4 DD, 4 scrolls shouldnt be over kill.

Lvl 4 Archmage, 4 Scrolls, Silver Wand
(often shadow, but sometimes other lores depending on the situation)

Commander, Heavy Armor, Shield, Great Weapon, Reaver Bow
(same price as a unit of archers, but provides better shooting flexibitliy as its 3 ST5 shots that will often hit. Good against things alot of things. Also, can be combined with steed of shadows to fly into a mage, or over a building to shoot the mage hiding behind. Archers cant do that either. Oh, and good for banshees, spirit hosts, and our new friends the demoni---erm...tree spirit woodelves.

*a note on characters: the mage tries to become general, sticks inbetween the two infantry blocks. either way, i get a ld9 general*
___________________________
MBU:

20 Spearelves, Command
*tried to squeeze in the warbanner, but couldnt find the points*

19 Swordmasters, Command, Blessed Tome
*didnt have points for the 20th, but can be joined by the commander if i need some more punch* Unit champ can stay at the edge of the unit so he can spread the +1 ld to the spears as well. With the archmage inbetween im looking @ at least one ld 10 block, and maybe two.
_______________________________
Flankers/Combat Support:

5 Silverhelms
5 Dragon Princes wSB, Banner of Sorcery
2 Chariots

*nothing much to say really, one cav unit and one chariot for each infantry block. I took the DP over a unit of helms so that i could take the banner of sorcery*
_______________________________
Missile Battery:
10 Archers
2 RBT
*archers are great for swarms, lightly armed fast cav, dogs, lone wizards, eagles, etc. RBT are for the big stuff....we all know what to target with those. But i almost always spend the first couple of turns shooting at the enemies support units rather then rank and file. Along with the reaver bow, i got some flexibility in this department.*
_______________________________
Other Support:
5 Shadow Warriors
2 Eagles
*i didnt include the SW in the missile battery section, because i dont plan to use them as a shooting unit. Marchblocking, mage hunting, warmachine unit. And, if really neccessary (and if the enemy has a lot of shooting units on ground level, they can be used as a screen for the swordmasters. (although i dont want to be forced to screen an expensive unit with another expensive unit). I dont think i have to explain what eagles do. They alone won me the game against dwarfs the other day, reirecting a big unit of longbeards + general + BSB so that my battle banner could hit in the flank, break them, over run into a unit of warriors and break them also.*

Lvl4, 4 Scrolls, Silver Wand
Commander, HA, GW, SH, Reaver bow
10 archers
20 spears FC
5 SH
19 Smasters FC, Blessed Tome
2 Chariots
5 DP, SB, Banner of Sorcery
5 SWarriors
2 Eagles
2 RBT

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
:w00t: :w00t: woah BEST POST EVER a brilliant help!

altho what does steed of shadows do? :O

also what do you mean your battle banner charged these longbeards?... what battle banner? was that a dumb question? if so sorry :w00t:

thanks man
 

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steed shadows is basically the default spell in lore of shadows.

It lets any of your character models (have to be alone and on foot) make a flying move (20 inches) so you could charge stuff. All movement spells are good.

ironically i change that list again yesterday, and finally settled with a good hardcore list able to hold its own. I dont want to hijack the thread, but if you want i could post it for you and add some comments on army comp.


btw, howabout another version of YOUR list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
please please please highjack this post, because your helping me loads at the moment :yes:

right heres my NEW AND IMPROVED LIST where i got rid of the BSB and the mage and got myself a lvl4 archmage :w00t:
however... wouldnt 2 lvl2 mages be better? because you could do 3 spells a turn with the ring of fury...

i really dont see much differance in 2 lvl2 mages and a lvl4 archmage at the moment so please tell me!!!

Archmage-
Level 4, 3 dispel scrolls, ring of fury
-345pts-

Commander-
Pure of Heart Honour, Reaver Bow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Hand Weapon
-112pts.-

10 Archers-
-120pts.-

16 Spearmen-
Full Command
-206pts.-

8 Silver Helms-
Heavy Armour, Shield, Full Command, War Banner
-239pts.-

19 Sword Masters-
Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Purifying Flame
-342pts.-

1 Tiranoc Chariot-
-85pts.-

1 Tiranoc Chariot-
-85pts.-

5 Shadow warriors
-75pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Bolt Thrower w/crew-
-100pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-

Great eagle
-50pts.-

Total -1911pts.-

89pts left... i basically want to keep both chariots, eagles, shadow warriors, bolt throwers and archers as they are

so the only units to ever think about changing are the silverhelms (which i dont want to split into 2 units cos i just painted them :cry: ), commander, spearelves, archmage and swordmasters

imnot sure about the equipment on the swordmasters at the moment.. is it right to have the banner with them? i see you dragon princes have the banner in your list. and is the amulet of purifying flame worth it?

thanks alot :w00t:
 

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So start off, a lvl 4 is a little better, because it saves you points by not having to buy seer, and channeller for your lvl2s, silverwand is the best for the lvl4. (since you have 10 points left in his magic allowance, i suggest you get it) (-10)

i would split the helms, but since you just painted them you could leave them as they are for now. But why would that stop you from spliting them? It would help so that you have one unit for each block of infantry so you can counter charge.

With those extra points, id bump up the spears to 20.

the reason i put the banner of s on the DP, is because the smasters are already a really expensive unit, and they dont need to attract all the missiles on the planet. The 50 point banner makes them an ideal target. Putting it on another unit makes that unit less expensive.

amulet is a good item for the smasters.

on a side note, im assuming ur a new player. If you're worrying about where you're gonna find extra models like the 4 spears and 2 silverhelms you dont need to buy a new box or something. bide your time, ask around, friends, staff.

If you havent glued together the archers and spears, theres actually a way you can convert 20 spears, 10 archers, 5 shadow warriors and a mage from those bits. ask me if you dont know how.
_____________________
This is my new list:

Lvl 4, Ring of Fury, 3 Scrolls, Wand
Lvl 2, Ring of corin, Jewel of Dusk
Commander, Steed, Barding, HA, Shield, Lance, Reaver Bow
19 Spears, Standard, Musicien
10 Archers
5 SH
5 DP + SB + Banner of S. + commander
2 Chariots
5 Reavers + spears, bows
5 Shadow warriors
2 Eagles
2 RBT

i think that list has the potential to take on anything, and if played well will hold its own. Thus said, dont expect it to stand up against ultra win at all costs lists. But i wont shy away from a challenge with it, as i feel ive got all the right tools to battle anything.

Feel free to copy :shifty: I know i dropped the swordmasters, but i thought a little more about them and figured they are just a little too expensive for what they do. Its more of a personal taste, using a unit of 20 in an army is by no means suicidal.

cheers, PM me or post in this thread, if you have any questions .
 
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