[MindRaked]

Hi !

Seekers missiles : A model / unit (not sure) with a markerlight can call for a missile to be fired upon a target.

Questions :

Does it prevents the unit from firing any other weapon, does it prevent only the model with a marker light or does it allows shooting ?

And can the unit fire at another target than the one receiving the missile ?

In other words, what does happen to a unit of 12 Fire Warriors if my Sha'sui call for a missile ?

 

[Wundagore]

Although I'm pretty new this is how i think it goes

if you're shas'ui fires a marker light he has shot his weapons. unless he has a hard-wired multi tracker then he can also fire his pulse rifle.
and the seeker missle if a sort of trigged shot. so it doesn't count towards any shooting a unit can do
a skyray is able to fire all 6 missles. provided you have that many marker lights

 

[psichotykwyrm]

Just to add some completeness to the answer, the missile is not considered to be fired by the vehicle, it is independent. Therefore, seeker missiles do not count as "Main Weapons" as far as vehicles are concerned, and can be fired no matter how far the vehicle moved.

 

[MindRaked]

So, if I understand it correctly, I can do the following.

1- A first unit sucessfuly score a markerlight on a vehicle.
2- A second unit call in for a seeker missile on the vehicle and then fire all it's weapons on another unit (ork boys for example), while the shas'ui with it's target lock shoot it's markerlight to another target.

Am I right ?

 

[ZenGamer]

So, if I understand it correctly, I can do the following.

1- A first unit sucessfuly score a markerlight on a vehicle.
2- A second unit call in for a seeker missile on the vehicle and then fire all it's weapons on another unit (ork boys for example), while the shas'ui with it's target lock shoot it's markerlight to another target.

Am I right ?

No idea what you're trying to say here. Here is how it works.


Using your example of 12 fire warriors, one of whom is Shas'ui and has a markerlight. They fire 11 pulse rifle shots at an enemy unit and the Shas'ui fires his markerlight. All your FW's must fire at the same target (unless the Shas'ui has a target lock, ignore the target lock for now). Assuming the markerlight hit and the enemy unit still lives, you now place a markerlight token next to the enemy unit to signify that that unit has one markerlight "marker". This can be a dice, coin, or whatever you want. That marker stays there until the end of your shooting phase or until you use it. The fire warriors are now finished with their shooting phase action and are furthermore ignored.

Now, later in your shooting phase, you decide to use the markerlight token. You remove it and gain any of the benefits listed in the codex. If you choose to fire a seeker missile from a vehicle equipped with one, then you do so and roll as if it were BS 5. If it hits, you resolve it as normal. Firing this seeker does not count as the vehicle firing - in fact the vehicle in question did not act at all yet, or it may have already acted - it does not matter. The seeker is simply carried by the vehicle and basically fires itself using its artificial intelligence and it targets the unit marked by the markerlight.

Now, if the Shas'ui has a Target Lock, he can attempt to fire his markerlight at a different target than the rest of the fire warriors if and only if you succeed at a successful leadership test. If successful, then you can target one unit (perhaps a vehicle) with the markerlight and a different unit (perhaps some ork boyz) with the pulse rifles. If the markerlight hits, you resolve as above.

The markerlight marks a target and a seeker missile can hit the targeted unit. The vehicle that had the seeker on it can do whatever it wants to.

Clear?

.

 

[MindRaked]

Clear?

.

If you read the codex attentively, it is said, in the seeker missile entry, that "a model with a markerlight can request for a missile to be fired to a marked target (or something like that)", this is why I built my example this way. I wanted to know if the shas'ui of the second unit could fire at another target or if he's counted as having fired the missile (even if the missile doesn't come from him).

 

[ZenGamer]

If you read the codex attentively, it is said, in the seeker missile entry, that "a model with a markerlight can request for a missile to be fired to a marked target (or something like that)", this is why I built my example this way. I wanted to know if the shas'ui of the second unit could fire at another target or if he's counted as having fired the missile (even if the missile doesn't come from him).

Yes, but I'm trying to explain it from a rules standpoint - the practical way it is actually handled in game. The "... model with a markerlight who requests for a missile..." is fluff.

The Shas'ui fires his weapon (markerlight) at the same time as the rest of his squad. The only way he can fire at something different than the rest of his unit is if he has a Target Lock, and even then only with a successful leadership test. Whether or not you use the markerlight "hit" or "marker" to fire a seeker is irrelevant to this fact and does not change it. The seeker missile can then be handled immediately or at any time later in the same shooting phase if you desire, and does not in any way affect the markerlight wielder (i.e. Shas'ui) who fired the markerlight. It also does not in any way affect the vehicle who is carrying the seeker missile. The seeker missile comes from the direction of the vehicle, not the markerlight wielder.

.

 

[Rikimaru]

Yes, but I'm trying to explain it from a rules standpoint - the practical way it is actually handled in game. The "... model with a markerlight who requests for a missile..." is fluff.

The Shas'ui fires his weapon (markerlight) at the same time as the rest of his squad. The only way he can fire at something different than the rest of his unit is if he has a Target Lock, and even then only with a successful leadership test. Whether or not you use the markerlight "hit" or "marker" to fire a seeker is irrelevant to this fact and does not change it. The seeker missile can then be handled immediately or at any time later in the same shooting phase if you desire, and does not in any way affect the markerlight wielder (i.e. Shas'ui) who fired the markerlight. It also does not in any way affect the vehicle who is carrying the seeker missile. The seeker missile comes from the direction of the vehicle, not the markerlight wielder.

.

Bit of confusion abounds here methinks.
Anyway what I think Mindraked is saying is if he has two units of Fire Warriors with a Shas'Ui in each unit equipped with MLs', is this applicable:
(1) First FW Shas'Ui marks a target with a Marker light (generates an ML token)
(2) Can the second Shas'Ui call a Seeker missile using the other Shas'Ui's ML token and then fire his own Markerlight at another target, utilising its Target lock.

Well the simple answer is that Seekers are always vehicle mounted and the Seeker uses a ML token when it launches a Seeker. So basically whenever you get a ML token to utilise you can use it to call (or launch a Seeker from a vehicle). if you do not launch a Seeker by the end of the Tau turn (I/E launch a Seeker from a vehicle in the Fire Warriors or a vehicles shooting phase) or do not use the ML token for some other benefit (BS improvement etc) then the ML token is lost.

As Zen says if the Shas'Ui has a Target lock then he can fire his ML at a different target to his FW's. The FW's cannot utilise the ML token as it comes from the same unit and is not networked. The token can be utilised to launch another Seeker or for another ML benefit by a different unit.

 

[ZenGamer]

Bit of confusion abounds here methinks.
Anyway what I think Mindraked is saying is if he has two units of Fire Warriors with a Shas'Ui in each unit equipped with MLs', is this applicable:
(1) First FW Shas'Ui marks a target with a Marker light (generates an ML token)
(2) Can the second Shas'Ui call a Seeker missile using the other Shas'Ui's ML token and then fire his own Markerlight at another target, utilising its Target lock.

You might be right... after all these posts I hadn't considered that he was talking about 2 teams of firewarriors.

Riki is right though. Nobody is affected by firing a seeker missile other than the target unit - expending a markerlight token does not require another markerlight and any other markerlights you have available can do whatever you want them to if they are able. Firing the seeker missile is completely seperate in every way from firing markerlights except that you must expend a marker token to do so.

.

 

[Illegal_Carrot]

I have a question about firing Seekers at Fliers.
I'm told when your firing at a flier, you can only hit on a roll of 6. However, when you fire the Seeker, you fire at BS 5. I don't know the wording on the Flier rule, so I must ask here.
Do your Seekers only hit on 6, or is it the normal 2+?

 

[the aun's servant]

Now there are different rules for this, if you read imperial armour 2 i believe you will see the rules for the fisrt skyray and it says that if a weapon is mounted on an AA mount the missile hit on a 4+

 

[Rikimaru]

Now there are different rules for this, if you read imperial armour 2 i believe you will see the rules for the fisrt skyray and it says that if a weapon is mounted on an AA mount the missile hit on a 4+

However aren't certain flyer rules changed by Apocalypse, I do not have the Apoc book so I cannot tell you. Maybe someone who does have the Apoc book can enlighten us.

 

[MindRaked]

expending a markerlight token does not require another markerlight
.

Read the seeker missile again and you'll read something like "a model with a markerlight may call for a missile ..."

This is why you must have a shas'ui or some other markerlight equipped model availlable in order to fire the seeker missiles.

 

[Rikimaru]

Read the seeker missile again and you'll read something like "a model with a markerlight may call for a missile ..."

This is why you must have a shas'ui or some other markerlight equipped model availlable in order to fire the seeker missiles.

Yeah but that is not what he is saying, a Marker light token is "generated" by a model equipped with a Marker light, however a unit does not have to be equiped with a Marker light to obtain a benefit from a ML token. Basically any Tau (or Vespid, not Kroot) unit can use the Marker light token irrespective of having a ML or not. The only rule to rememeber is that the unit generating the ML token cannot benefit from it unless it is a networked ML.

 

[haddatt]

Vespid but only with a strain leader. Oddly enough, human auxileries may have markerlight on their Gue’vesa’ui and generate markerlight hits (that can consequently be used to call in seeker missiles) but they may not use markerlight hits themselves.

 

[Illegal_Carrot]

Vespid but only with a strain leader. Oddly enough, human auxileries may have markerlight on their Gue’vesa’ui and generate markerlight hits (that can consequently be used to call in seeker missiles) but they may not use markerlight hits themselves.

I always assumed that this is because Tau and the Vespid Strain Leader have helmets that can identify Markerlights, and benefit from them. Kroot obviously do not have this helmet, and it can be assumed that Auxiliaries don't/don't have one that can benefit from the ML.

 

[ZenGamer]

Read the seeker missile again and you'll read something like "a model with a markerlight may call for a missile ..."

This is why you must have a shas'ui or some other markerlight equipped model availlable in order to fire the seeker missiles.

I finally understand what you are saying, but it is incorrect. In your example, the first Shas'ui that fired the markerlight is the one who is calling for the seeker missile if that is what you choose to use the markerlight token for. It does not require a second markerlight (or markerlight token) unless you want to fire a second seeker missile.

 

[Illegal_Carrot]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is so confusing.
No units 'requests' a Seeker. You, the 'general,' do.
If a ML hits the enemy, you may call a Seeker at any point in your Shooting phase (assuming you have a ML token left to 'spend' on the Seeker).
All you need is that ML to hit (it doesn't matter where it came from), and firing a Seeker does not affect any of your units in any way. Fluff aside, game-play wise, you, the general, are requesting the Seeker. You do not need a second unit with MLs, a second ML token, or whatever.

Do you understand?

 

[MindRaked]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is so confusing.
No units 'requests' a Seeker. You, the 'general,' do.
If a ML hits the enemy, you may call a Seeker at any point in your Shooting phase (assuming you have a ML token left to 'spend' on the Seeker).
All you need is that ML to hit (it doesn't matter where it came from), and firing a Seeker does not affect any of your units in any way. Fluff aside, game-play wise, you, the general, are requesting the Seeker. You do not need a second unit with MLs, a second ML token, or whatever.

Do you understand?

So, what you say it that units benefits from markerlight counters, but they don't use / spend them.

 

[Ravenscraig]

Hi !

Seekers missiles : A model / unit (not sure) with a markerlight can call for a missile to be fired upon a target.

Questions :

Does it prevents the unit from firing any other weapon, does it prevent only the model with a marker light or does it allows shooting ?

And can the unit fire at another target than the one receiving the missile ?

In other words, what does happen to a unit of 12 Fire Warriors if my Sha'sui call for a missile ?

Brother MindRaked, I thought I'd better go back to your original post because the last couple above started to make my brain hurt!

To answer your question as simply as I can:

The use of a ML does not prevent the rest of the unit firing other weapons.

However, unless the ML user has a target lock then all firing must be at the same target unit.

Conversely, if your ML user does have a target lock, then the rest of the unit may fire at a different target.

But don't forget that target priority tests still apply in all of this.

I hope this straightens things out ... ... ...

~ Ravenscraig ~