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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HQ
96 - Marshall BP + Power Weapon (Deploy with Support Squad, stay with)

120 - Chaplain Reclusiarch in Terminator Armor (Deploy in Land Raider, Stay with Term. Squad)

140 - Emperors Champion w/ Accept any Challenge no matter the odds

Elite
505 - Assault Terminator Squad
5 Terminator w/ Lightning Claws + Furious Charge Upgrade
Land Raider Crusader w/ Blessed Hull

165 - Venerable Dreadnought
Venerable Dread, Twin-linked Lascannon, Missle Launcher w/ Tank Hunter Upgrade

Troops
291 - Attack Crusader Squad 1
10 Initiates, 8 BP+CCW, 1 Meltagun, 1 Power Fist
10 Neophytes all BP+CCW

145 - Attack Crusader Squad 2
5 Initiates 4 BP+CCW, 1 Power Fist
5 Neophytes all BP+CCW
Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers

107 - Support Crusader Squad
6 Initiates, 4 Bolters, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun

Fast Attack
120 - Assault Marines w/ Melta Bombs x5

Total - 1747

Obviously the landraider will be my spearhead of the assault. With the amount of re-rolls that term squad will get with the chaplain the claws plus the vow will guarantee whatever they charge at will die. Hopefully the landraider will draw a lot of fire while the anti-tank dread and large crusader squad follow behind it.

The glaring problems I see so far is no way to get the crusader squads into combat without slogging all the way but that's why the landraider will spearhead the charge.

The other obvious problem is my EC trying to foot slog it. Can I put him in the land raider aswell? If I can he'll just hang out until the rest of the army catches up then he'll pop out and do what he does best.

I hope the melta bomb squad and the dread will be enough anti-tank in this many points but I'm not quite sure.

I've never made a list this big before. This is going to be a guide on where I want my army to go by the time I fill out my collection.

Any tips on what im missing and need fixing will be greatly appreciated Also if anyone has any ideas on how to cut this down to 1500, 1000 and 750 would also be appreciated. I dont know what you need at each point level as.. I've never gone above 1000pts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
As my goals of being able to build up to this rather than having a seprate list for each point level I mearly tried to whittle this down little by little to two lower point values. Those lists are as follows:

1500 Point List:

HQ
82 - Marshall w/ BP+CCW

140 - Emperors Champion w/Accept any Challenge

Elite
200 - Assault Terminators
5 Terminators w/ Dual Lightning Claws

165 - Dreadnought
Venerable, Twin-Linked Lascannon
Missle Launcher, Tank Hunter Upgrade

Troops
291 - Crusader Squad 1
10 Initiates, BP+CCW, Melta, Powerfist
10 Neophytes

91 - Crusader Squad 2
5 Initiates, 3 Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun

235 - Crusader Squad 3
5 Initiates, BP+CCW, Melta, Powerfist
5 Neophytes, BP+CCW
Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

Heavy Support
293 - Land Raider Crusader w/ Blessed Hull and Smoke Launchers

Total - 1497

I have to edit the individual points costs out of the lists so I'll post the 1000 point list later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
HQ
82 - Marshall w/ BP+CCW

140 - Emperors Champion w/Accept any Challenge

Elite
200 - Assault Terminators
5 Terminators w/ Dual Lightning Claws

Troops
271 - Crusader Squad 1
10 Initiates, BP+CCW, Melta, Powerfist
8 Neophytes

91 - Crusader Squad 2
5 Initiates, 3 Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun

215 - Crusader Squad 3
5 Initiates, BP+CCW, Melta, Powerfist
3 Neophytes, BP+CCW
Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

Total - 999

Might drop the Rhino and add 2 Initiates and 2 Neophytes to the Rhino squad, hoping the 4 extra bodies will make up for no transport.
 

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Pick one list and I'll reply to it. :]
 

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Prince said in that thread of mine that buying HQs other than the basic Emperor's Champion was a waste. Something like, "He's already the best choice and the codex forces you to take him!" I'd drop the other HQ choices... I found that I could do much more useful things with the points in my list (I took basically the same choices as you).
 

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Eenie-meenie-minie-moe... I guess I'll pick the last one. :)

HQ
82 - Marshall w/ BP+CCW
That's a lot of points to be spending for JUST his leadership. In 1K, he's also too many points if you give him good weaponry, so I'll agree with Hive_Node. Thanks for coming, Mashall. See ya later!

140 - Emperors Champion w/Accept any Challenge
Terrible choice! Just kidding :)

Elite
200 - Assault Terminators
5 Terminators w/ Dual Lightning Claws
I typically put 1-2 TH/SS models instead of all claws. They will rip through infantry regardless, but with THs they can now take out vehicles and MCs too (although the latter you need to be very careful with). Same price, so it's easy as chocolate cake.

Troops
271 - Crusader Squad 1
10 Initiates, BP+CCW, Melta, Powerfist
8 Neophytes
Run you fools! I like the big squads like this. They are great for (A) fear tactics, and (B) surviving and taking lots of enemy fire. But they are actually much better if you double 'em up. With only one Crusader mob, they become the obvious target and much easier to deal with for the opponent. Two or more mobs makes them go "Yikes!"

Now, the Marshall does have a place in a Crusader mob army, since they will undoubtedly be taking several morale checks. So if you are going to add more, I'd say bring him back into the fold.


91 - Crusader Squad 2
5 Initiates, 3 Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun
This is an easy target for the long-ranged guns of the enemy because of their small squad size.

215 - Crusader Squad 3
5 Initiates, BP+CCW, Melta, Powerfist
3 Neophytes, BP+CCW
Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
The gold standard! These guys, much like the mobs, are great in theory, but they are really much better when you choose to double them up. Actually, when it's Rhinos instead of mobs, you really need at least three of them because they are easier to deal with than a ton of Marines charging you down. Think of it as if you are giving up half your squad for 12-24" of movement.

Total - 999

Might drop the Rhino and add 2 Initiates and 2 Neophytes to the Rhino squad, hoping the 4 extra bodies will make up for no transport.
You can't really go halfsies on the mob concept, because then they'll just be a slightly bigger squad that you won't know what to do with. They can't run straight into the enemy lines, and hanging & hiding is a rather waste of time, even if they have a heavy gun.

Overall, I'd say you need to bring a focused strategy to this list and go all out to that end. It is the Crusader Way!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Eenie-meenie-minie-moe... I guess I'll pick the last one.

You can't really go halfsies on the mob concept, because then they'll just be a slightly bigger squad that you won't know what to do with. They can't run straight into the enemy lines, and hanging & hiding is a rather waste of time, even if they have a heavy gun.

Overall, I'd say you need to bring a focused strategy to this list and go all out to that end. It is the Crusader Way!
The reason I wanted the marshal is because I'm terrible at morale checks so I need that Ld10.

I'm going to magnetize my termies for easy swapping, I'll probably take your advice on TH/SS.

So obviously I should drop the Rhino to beef up the squad as I had mentioned I might.

What to do about that small squad? I wanted them to hold home base objectives while giving me some support firepower(which I otherwise have none of). What would you suggest instead? A dreadnought?

Prince said in that thread of mine that buying HQs other than the basic Emperor's Champion was a waste. Something like, "He's already the best choice and the codex forces you to take him!" I'd drop the other HQ choices... I found that I could do much more useful things with the points in my list (I took basically the same choices as you).
I'm going for the universal Ld10

Pick one list and I'll reply to it. :]
I'd like the comments on my 1750 list because that's the one I want to build towards, it'll help me figure out what to buy if I get my biggest list locked down!

Also for the record i've decided to drop the chaplain from the list, I was going to put him in the Termie squad but the re-rolls don't stack i've learned so he's just a waste of points now.
 

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HQ
96 - Marshall BP + Power Weapon (Deploy with Support Squad, stay with)

Drop it even though you want Ld10. You still have great Ld and this guy is taking up points. Just get better dice or protect your units with transports. I stand by my opinion an Emperor's Champ is the best HQ you can have always. The Marshall isn't even a good fighter really.

140 - Emperors Champion w/ Accept any Challenge no matter the odds

Good.

Elite
505 - Assault Terminator Squad
5 Terminator w/ Lightning Claws + Furious Charge Upgrade
Land Raider Crusader w/ Blessed Hull

Get at least 2 TH/SS in there. I know yours aren't as good but you still need them to make the unit rounded. LCs with re-roll to hit and wound will still shred units, even if there's 3 not 5.

165 - Venerable Dreadnought
Venerable Dread, Twin-linked Lascannon, Missle Launcher w/ Tank Hunter Upgrade

Troops
291 - Attack Crusader Squad 1
10 Initiates, 8 BP+CCW, 1 Meltagun, 1 Power Fist
10 Neophytes all BP+CCW

See this is where your list is weak. You're playing Marines on foot. This works in 0 armies. Drop the Neophytes, buy a Rhino. You'll get there faster with more men and won't need to take as many LD checks.

145 - Attack Crusader Squad 2
5 Initiates 4 BP+CCW, 1 Power Fist
5 Neophytes all BP+CCW
Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers

Drop the Neophytes for Initiates. The armor save and WS matter. Also grab a Melta.

107 - Support Crusader Squad
6 Initiates, 4 Bolters, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun

Still needs a Rhino, or better yet keep them small with a Razorback. HWs are better on vehicles for your army, so just keep the Plasma.

Fast Attack
120 - Assault Marines w/ Melta Bombs x5

I''d drop the Bombs and get a PF, maybe a Flamer too.
You really need some Heavy Support to compliment your Rhino/LRC spearhead. Vindicators are the best unit for this. They WILL draw fire off the Rhinos, especially if you run two. If your opponent doesn't shake/stun them, make him pay. Also another thing for your AS squad to hide behind.

Overall dropping the Marshall and investing in armor will pay off.
 

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Than you're going to have rough games against good players. Unless you're 'Nids, Necrons or Orks, armor is a fact of the game.
 

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One thing I'm not sure about, I will stand corrected though. I'm not sure that you can run an emperors champion as you're single HQ, seeing as he doesn't take up the compulsary HQ slot.
I'd run the Marshal, the ld is great, and you want that for the riteous Zeal. You want the crusaders to run towards not away from the enemy. Give him artificer armour, MC power weapon, throw an Iron Halo in and lead a command squad. That is the combo I play and it works great! he kills everthing around him and he's tough to kill. Emperors champions are great but i use him as a supporting character, going around trying to kill off other single characters with Accept any challenge.
I wouldn't worry about the Rhino's, I play an all foot army. the only tank in my army is a predator, and the only army i lose to is Chaos daemons. due to the Riteous zeal, your guys will get across the board pretty quickly if the dice are nice to you. With big units it works well cause you let a neophyte take the hit, and take off full pace towards them.

Anyway hope some of this helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
command squads, especially in BT are WAAAY over priced and useless

i imagine they could be usefull if you kitted them out as if they were sword brethern

i'm very very curious to hear what your command squad configuration is! especially considering i already have one which means no buying.
 

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I agree, Command Squads are terrible in all SM armies not just BT. They can have sweet kits but just to pricey for the bodies and no transport is gun proof.

The EC can be your solo HQ, this is mentioned in the FAQ for BT.
 

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I didn't know that it could, hadn't seen the FAQ for it. Depending on the enemy i'll deck the command squad with all the Marshal and a Chaplain in tow all with Furious Charge. You're right very pricey but I always manage to get them into combat,easy against daemons when they come to you. The way i run my army is the command squad is decked to the max, but there is always enough models to take the wounds. My army has evolved from straight BT to include daemon hunters and in it, the command squad is the least of their worries. and when my terms drop in to say hello behind their lines i get some peace. I guess it all depends on who your playing against. I run the command squad simply to get a heap of power weapos against my necron opponants so they don't get back up.
 

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Demons are easy to get that in with yes. Orks would be less fun, you can't do enough damage to kill the PK and not be swamped. CSM could pop the transport and drop a few guys before swooping in etc.

Just saying that a lot of CC armies can rough it up a bit, for my points I like cheap and effective.
 

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depending. Against necrons i put as many power weapons into the army as possible. all the special guys have power weapons, or a power fist, I have about 8. enough to soak some wound without taking the sergeant or a sepcial guy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
you're not making yourself very clear,

you're putting in an apothecary, standard bearer, champion, etc, then buffing the total number up to 8 with initiates

and THEN you're giving them all power weapons?
 

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I say just stick to what you've got Skelter. It's becoming a solid multi use list where it looks like Malakai lists based on what he plays against, which isn't a good idea imo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
general consensus seems to be either get 2 big troops or 2 rhino troops

drop the marshall if i need the points or feel i don't need the Ld10

take melta off the assault squads and give them PF and flamer

terminators and land raider are fine

champ is fine


Now my questions are: If I have 2 troops in rhinos it's probably a good idea to have a razorback with the fire support squad in it but, if i decide to slog my troops in larger squads what do i use as fire support for them? you've stated that having a small fire support unit will die too quickly.. what should I do for fire support then?

What's wrong with meltabombs on assault troops? in theory they seem awesome so why is a PF better?

Finally to explain why I dont want to go mech despite it being the focus of 5th gameplay:

I just don't like using vehicles, I don't enjoy it. Also, the idea of foot slogging crazed melee troops is what enticed me to play black templar.

Next, Warhammer is a crafting hobby as much as a game for me and I really dont want to spend assloads of cash on a land raider, 2 rhinos and a razorback when for half of that cost (dollar wise) I could just load up on troops. That being said i'm trying to find a middle ground because i still don't want to lose every game.
 
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