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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

So this is my first DE list ever. Borrowing my mates army to face another friends Dwarfs. Have a look and tell me what you think. I’ll probably be facing a mixed army with a mix of war machines, shooters (thunderers, fire shooting guys?!) and a few combat blocks.

2197 Points:

Master - Heavy Armour, SDC, Lance, Pegasus, Cloak of Twilight

Death Hag – CoB, BSB

Dark Riders x 5 – RxB, Shields

Dark Riders x 5 – RxB, Shields

Warlocks x 5

Warlocks x 5

Shades x 8 - GW

Witch Elves x 35

Black Guard x 28 – Full Command

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

The tactic is to get rid of most of his shooting before moving up with the two main blocks. I intend to do this by blasting him with RBT, Warlocks and maybe harass with my Dark Riders. The Peg Master could take care of a war machine or two if there is an opportunity.

Feedback?
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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In my experience, Dwarfs are a pretty hard counter to Dark Elves. Looking at your list:

Dark Riders - these guys are going to evaporate almost immediately. It's not going to be pretty. You either need more of them to use as targets, or just drop them for something else. You don't really need chaff against the Dwarfs, as they're not the kind of army to come out and get you. In my experience, you rarely even need "dummy drops", as they don't play a reactive game. They usually just phalanx up, hunker down with their guns, and let you try to chisel them out.

Warlocks - these will work, but they need to be in larger units or you need to combine the two units you have. The big advantage here isn't that they'll throw magic around or shift the lines at all. It's that the fast movement and the 4+ Ward means that they should get across the field and tie up some of his shooting right away.

Shades - any Dwarf worth his salt should have at least a single Volleygun in the lines to deal with fliers/ambushers/scouts like these. They can pivot and fire just like any Warmachine, and get enough shots to take care of small threats like your Shades. Best case scenario, you have terrain in his deployment zone behind his other shooting, and he can only blow you off the board with the Organgun. Worst case scenario the only terrain is 12" in front of his lines, and he blasts you into next month as soon as you leave the treeline. I would drop this unit and free up the points.

With Elves - they're going to have trouble with the armor/parry, trust me. However, they should be alright overall. You might want a few more bodies in there - expect to take massive casualties crossing the board (all of his shooting wounds on 3+ and you don't get Armor).

Black Guard - solid, but they need a Razor Standard to get through the Dwarf armor.

4x Reapers, and your Tactics - you can't outshoot Dwarfs. Best case for you, he engages in "counter battery fire" and wipes your RBTs off the map with cannons. worst case, he ignores the RBTs and spends the time shooting at your infantry like he should. With Dwarfs, you can't play to their strengths and try to win the "slow" game by shooting and then moving in to finish them off. You need to be in combat ASAP and out from under those guns. Dwarf shooting becomes very overpriced as soon as you get it into combat. Until then however, Dwarf gunnery is second to none in this entire game.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
First of all, thanks for the reply. I appriciate all the help I can get.

In my experience, Dwarfs are a pretty hard counter to Dark Elves. Looking at your list:

Dark Riders - these guys are going to evaporate almost immediately. It's not going to be pretty. You either need more of them to use as targets, or just drop them for something else. You don't really need chaff against the Dwarfs, as they're not the kind of army to come out and get you. In my experience, you rarely even need "dummy drops", as they don't play a reactive game. They usually just phalanx up, hunker down with their guns, and let you try to chisel them out.
I was actually gonna use them to cover up my warlocks when they advance, giving them a "cover save (BS Penalty)". 5x locks and 5x riders on each flank. But maybe i should put all riders in one unit instead, for war maching hunting?!

Warlocks - these will work, but they need to be in larger units or you need to combine the two units you have. The big advantage here isn't that they'll throw magic around or shift the lines at all. It's that the fast movement and the 4+ Ward means that they should get across the field and tie up some of his shooting right away.
Totally get what your saying. Though that wasnt really my plan... We'll come back to that.

Shades - any Dwarf worth his salt should have at least a single Volleygun in the lines to deal with fliers/ambushers/scouts like these. They can pivot and fire just like any Warmachine, and get enough shots to take care of small threats like your Shades. Best case scenario, you have terrain in his deployment zone behind his other shooting, and he can only blow you off the board with the Organgun. Worst case scenario the only terrain is 12" in front of his lines, and he blasts you into next month as soon as you leave the treeline. I would drop this unit and free up the points.
Don't actually think he owns anything called a volleygun. I thought of these guys as a unit to tie up some thunderers or whatever shooting units he'll bring. Either that or just an anoying unit out of place he'll have to deal whit in some way.

With Elves - they're going to have trouble with the armor/parry, trust me. However, they should be alright overall. You might want a few more bodies in there - expect to take massive casualties crossing the board (all of his shooting wounds on 3+ and you don't get Armor).
Yeah I know, the plan is to get them flanking to at least get rid of the parry save. But more bodies, I dont know man. That unit is almost 700 pts!

Black Guard - solid, but they need a Razor Standard to get through the Dwarf armor.
I thought of that aswell, think I spent the points on the Shades instead. Switch maybe...

4x Reapers, and your Tactics - you can't outshoot Dwarfs. Best case for you, he engages in "counter battery fire" and wipes your RBTs off the map with cannons. worst case, he ignores the RBTs and spends the time shooting at your infantry like he should. With Dwarfs, you can't play to their strengths and try to win the "slow" game by shooting and then moving in to finish them off. You need to be in combat ASAP and out from under those guns. Dwarf shooting becomes very overpriced as soon as you get it into combat. Until then however, Dwarf gunnery is second to none in this entire game.
Ok so, the initiall plan was this: I was gonna deploy (like a coward) out of reach of all his shooting (exept the cannon, kinda hard). So the first round he'll get the cannon shot of, maybe something dies, maybe not. In my first turn I'll advance just close enough with my warlocks to doombolt at least his organ gun, second choice will be the cannon. My bolt throwers (who is in range of his whole army) will either take down advancing gyrocopters or just go 4x6 bolts on a shooting unit of his. I realise that this turn depends a lot on getting those two doombolts of, but i just cant see a scenario where I start moving my whole army across the field just to get shot to bits.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok guys, so I redid the list thinking I'll want a fast first advance. I also took alot of CaptainSarathai's recommendations. Have a look and tell me what you think. :)

Master - Heavy Armour, SDC, Lance, Pegasus, Cloak of Twilight 188p

Sorceress - lvl 2 Beast 115p

Dark Riders x 10 – RxB, Shields 200p

Dark Riders x 10 – RxB, Shields 200p

Dark Riders x 10 – RxB, Shields 200p

Warlocks x 10 250p

Warlocks x 10 250p

Black Guard x 28, Full Command, Razor Standard 495p

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower


So the game this time is to vanguard 5x10 cav units while marching the block of BG with Sorc in it for support. RBT takes down Gyrocopters then highest priority.
 

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if your facing dwarfs make some room for excutioners infact id take them over the black guard tbh its the hole white lion versus sword master argument. You don't need 2 lots of warlocks and a lvl 2 you will never get that many magic dice.

I play my dark elves alot and i tell you now warlocks do the job very nicely your list. Also i find cold ones very effective against dwarfs. Excutionser will be your best bet for actually killing something.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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That looks pretty good. Depending on how much combat he's got in his list you might have trouble once you close in on him, now that you've lost the Witches. However, tripling the number of RXBs from the Dark Riders could really make a difference in the shooting fight. He might be in for a bit of a surprise when you start lobbing that many bolts down range.
 

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I just did battle brothers and my rxb men with shields did quite good as did my 3 chariots and general.

Executioners are your best unit I terms of pulling things down :)
 
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