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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Two questions about these heavily armed and armoured arrogant boyz.

1. I've looked through a few army lists, and don't often see any Gitz in there, why is this?

2. As far as I know there are no actual models for Flash Gitz (yet), how have you gone about converting existing models to look like flash gitz?
 

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1) They're garbage, seriously, worst unit in the book.
I do not understand this sentiment.

Please back it up. I think that blanket statements like this one are pointless. Give a reason.

Because a unit of Nobz with better guns really doesn't sound that bad to me.

5pts more than a basic Nob. Same stat line. More Dakka makes them Assault 2.....Str 5.....AP D6.

I just feel like this is a unit that is worth making the conversions for. That being said...I think they are Freebooters...like Baddrukk...I am working on a unit...I grabbed these to help out.

http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=70
 

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Well, I would say that the reason gitz aren't as good as regular nobs is the following:
Cannot take bosspoles, so their LD is questionable
Cannot take power klaws, so simply do not have the combat potential of nobz
Cannot be taken as troops, so just use up a HS spot that could go to Kans, Looted Wagons, Battlewagons, or Kannons, all of which are better options for various reasons in most situations
Compete for the same role (anti-infantry shooting) as Lootas, who have a greater strength and a greater range, and Shoota boys, who are cheaper, collectively have more shots, and can hold objectives

At almost twice the cost of lootas, they'll be hard pressed to do the same damage from shooting. For their points they'll also be rocked in combat. That is why Flash Gitz are never taken. Now, I have heard of the possibility of using Badruk, 5 gitz & 3 ammo grots and just relying on Badrukk to smoke things with S7 AP2, but I have not personally done it.
 

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Ninja'd by Gorfang!

Well, let's see.

You're paying a ton of points for a unit of Nobs with single shot weapons (BS2 hoo boy!) with the option to make them slightly better at a big points increase (still too few shots for the points, not handy against vehicles), no PKs, no bosspole (unless you get Badrukk or add an IC), no transport options, and they take up a Heavy Support slot (they aren't Kanz, Battlewagons, or Big Gunz).

For the exorbitant points cost you can grab a lot more Shoota boyz for a superior firepower unit that can get a PK, bosspole, and scores.

Trash Gitz.
 

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twin linked shootas have range of 18" st 4 ap 6 and 2 shots, Snazzgun haz a range of 24" st 5, ap D6, and assault 1. So best case from a 5 man squad twin linked shootas get 10 shots at st 4 ap 6 where glitz best case get 10 shots st 6, Ap1.
so how are nobs better at shooting. nobs st 4 cant punch a vehicle but st 6 ap 1, the snazzgun can pop anything less then armor 12.

nobs get powerklaws and boss poles true but badrukk gets a boss pole and leadership 9 and with st 6 ap 1 glitz can pop vehicles from 24 inches (advioding explosion) where nobs are base to base.

flash glitz cannot have a dedicated transport but can be transported by anything empty, same as burnas, and lootas.
nobs and glitz have option of eavy armor and cybork.

I see flash glitz as a nob squad with better weapons to be used as death from a distance insted of face to face like most nobs.
I use flash glitz in almost all my lists and they have never let me down
 

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So you're comparing Flash Gitz to Nobs w/ tl shootas, why?

For the price of that Flash Gitz mob you can field 30 Shootas and then some. Which is the superior shooting unit? Like I even have to ask.

Flash Gitz popping armor is assuming quite a bit, you only get AP1 on 1 roll (2 if you pay even more). Why pay that much when Lootas are far better, cheaper, and have a longer range?

Sure they can take an empty ride, so now you're wasting 2 Heavy slots on them. Fail.
 

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30 shootas with a 18" reach st 4 ap 6 how many kills will that get you, glitz have a better stat line, you have a 50% chance of ap 1-3 which void armor saves of almost everything. almost everything has a armor save vs shootas but not snaz guns. even if you roll ap 6 the gun is still st 6 ap X assault 2.

lootas do have more range, and a stronger weapon but have no assault ability, and no armor save, as well as 1 wound just like your shoota boyz.

and for your comment about taking an empty ride; shoota boys dont get a dedicated vehicle unless there are only 12. sorry man you fail. You are only impressing yourself.
 

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30 shootas can get themselves on an objective, they can also have a PK and BP, and they don't need a transport. I would say gitz need to get close fast to start paying their points back. They can't do it by scoring like boyz can and if the enemy doesn't have any MEQs then it's gonna be whole lot harder to make back said pts.

I will say that gitz do the ranged MEQ killing thing better than other Orks, just not point for point better.

I know I'm not a mod, but lets not start insulting people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It'd depend on what you thought you would be facing, because Lootas at AP4 aren't going to instagib space marines, which Gitz (as long as they get a roll from 1-3, of which there is a 50% chance) can. However, they'd be wasted against most other armies which have armour saves of 4+ or more. Basically they are a Nob squad which has been range-optimized instead of CC optimized, and because of the myriad of other HS options available to us which will be more cost-effective against most other armies, Gitz get given the cold shoulder. I contend, however, that they are useless in all situations, as with all units they have their place.
 

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30 shootas with a 18" reach st 4 ap 6 how many kills will that get you, glitz have a better stat line, you have a 50% chance of ap 1-3 which void armor saves of almost everything. almost everything has a armor save vs shootas but not snaz guns. even if you roll ap 6 the gun is still st 6 ap X assault 2.

lootas do have more range, and a stronger weapon but have no assault ability, and no armor save, as well as 1 wound just like your shoota boyz.

and for your comment about taking an empty ride; shoota boys dont get a dedicated vehicle unless there are only 12. sorry man you fail. You are only impressing yourself.
Oh boy, so much wrong and so little time.

Shoota Boyz cost a fraction of what Gitz do, they score and they can get a PK and bosspole. For the price of a Git with every upgrade you can get almost 7 Shoota boyz. For the price of 30 Shoota Boyz and a PK Nob carting a bosspole (220 ) you'll get 5.5 Gitz. I'll give the Shootas 3 big shootas (235) and round the Gitz up to 6 (240 ). For kicks, we can field 15 Lootas for 225.

Shootas have 52 S4 AP6 shots at 18", 9 S5 AP5 shots at 36" and 1 S4 AP6 shot at 12". Lootas have D3 S7 AP4 shots at 48". Gitz have 12 S6 AP D6-1 shots at 24". Why even discuss this?

You love that AP eh? Welcome to 5th ed, everything has cover. High RoF wins, Trash Gitz lose.

I'll humor you though, because I am kind.
Against MEQs:
Shootas: 3.61 kills
Lootas (3 shots): 4.17 kills
Trash Gitz (AP3 or less): 3.33 kills

Take cover into account (or rolling a 5+ for AP) and Trash Gitz do half that.

Fail.

Lootas have 48" range, so they can sit tight all game and blow stuff away from turn 1, particularly transports that Orks in general have a difficult time dealing with. Shootas have 31 wounds to work through, score, do more damage, and have a PK plus a crap ton of attacks. Trash Gitz run after losing 2 models, go go Ld7! Anything S8 instakills them, unless you pay even [i[more[/i] points for a Painboy (no help against S8+, 1 less razzgun) and cybork bodies (woot 5+ invul! Oh wait, it sucks).

Let's do combat too! Sluggas have 2 attacks each (58 ), 3 on the charge (87), plus 3-4 from the PK Nob. Trash Gitz have 18 attacks, 24 on the charge. Lootas are 48" away and don't care, lol.

Against 10 MEQs with a powerfist:
Shootas lose 2.7, kill 8.42
Trash Gitz kill 2.67, lose 1.125 wounds and get a Git insta-splatted (.83 wounds from PF)

Double fail.

Shootas don't need a ride since there's 30 of them. Trash Gitz run at the first sign of trouble and need that Battlewagon to be halfway decent. I guess that means you only have 1 Heavy slot left since spending 600 points on a crappy unit is totally awesome, right?

That's your truth for the day, and sometimes the truth hurts.

It'd depend on what you thought you would be facing, because Lootas at AP4 aren't going to instagib space marines, which Gitz (as long as they get a roll from 1-3, of which there is a 50% chance) can. However, they'd be wasted against most other armies which have armour saves of 4+ or more. Basically they are a Nob squad which has been range-optimized instead of CC optimized, and because of the myriad of other HS options available to us which will be more cost-effective against most other armies, Gitz get given the cold shoulder.
Cover is so prevalent, AP doesn't mean much unless you're going up against dudes with FNP or vehicles (then AP1 and 2 only matter). Trash Gitz aren't optimized for shooting, Lootas and Shootas are, they are optimized for sucking up points and just being crap.

I contend, however, that they are useless in all situations
Delicious typo, I agree completely :D

as with all units they have their place.
Yep, on the shelf.
 

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I feel like one PK in a unit is getting an awful lot of credit. When we think of Orks we can talk about a lot of things that are hard for us to do.

the main ones are Troops with good armor saves and Vehicles...high armor stuff in other words.

If you buy 10 flash gitz and add the +5 pts for shootier (makes them Assault 2) then you have 20 shots......at a vehicle....if you manage to Roll AP1 then you are getting a +1 on your damage roll if you break armor. When shooting at terminators...you get a 2+ to wound and the potential for no armor saves (a 1 in 3 chance of it). So do the stats on terminators.

1 in 3 hit. 6 or 7 of 20.
5 of 6 wound so 5

if you manage to roll a 1 or a 2 on the AP roll you have a pretty decent chance of killing half of the unit or more (assuming it is a 5 man unit). that is for the most heavily armored infantry unit in the game.

I will take 20 snazzgun (shots) over 30 shootas any day of the week. Also, I always take a slugga and choppa with my boyz....they are too good of a unit in hand to hand IMO to waste shootas on.

Also this unit is a support unit....why would you get a PK for them? at their stat line scouts are gonna have a rough go of it against them and if they charge? Assault 2....Str 6....I feel like people haven't used this unit before and write them off.
 

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I have quietly disagreed with the general consensus of "Gitz Suck", and I am glad to see a thread where they are actually defended (Although I have to say the "for" party isn't putting on such a good show so far).

Personally, I love the gits. I understand they are not THE most efficient use of points, but I believe they have they're place. Something I've noticed about the Veterens in this thread (==Me==, Gorfang, and even Grax) is everything always comes down to nothing but points efficiency. While I fully understand why that is important, and how that would be super important if you entered tournaments that had large cash prizes or other similar circumstances, It's simply not the most important part of 40K. The most important part is Satisfaction and fun. Such a scrutinizing eye definitely has it's place, but sometimes a more realistic view should be taken.

Sure 30 boys could probably match/surpass the sheer dakka-Killy power of the Gitz, but some people want to make a shooty army and already have a squad or two of those units, and want some variety.Or even more common, they simply cannon AFFORD to buy 3 boxes of boys when just a few eBay bitz purchases will net them some fuel to convert Gitz. Sure Nobz are better at Melee. Duh. The Gits are NOT going to outperform them there. They can come fairly close, however, provided you don't play them as if they were Nobs (IE Running right at the heavy hitters on the table). The thing that I find appealing about the gitz, is they're sheer flexibility.

In my opinion, theres something to be said for a unit that can choose AFTER the game has started whether to hold they're ground (and possible cover saves) hoping for low AP rolls, or try to advance, run (and waaagh) and assault to finish off those last couple stubborn Space Marines. It's about unpredictability. And as Saraneth said, it's not that they don't have a place, it's just that, if your starting an army from scratch and money is not an issue (and lets face it, is it ever not an issue?) then yes you can build an army to do they're job just as well or close to it.

In my army, I use them as Interceptors for units such as Assault Marines that are good at melee, suck at range, and are going to try to hit me in my exposed underbelly: My Lootas. I hover the gitz around the lootas, preferably in cover and/or out of line of sight for most of the enemy, and as soon as I see them going for the lootas, I begin moving to range and/or open fire. You should be able to thin they're ranks with minimal risk at range (especially if the lootas help. The great part is, hopefully they won't need to, and your free to shoot at w/e you need to with the lootas, see below) and even if the Assaulters do get some heavy fire support by other units... at least they are shooting at the tough (ESPECIALLY with a painboy) Gitz who can take it better than regular Ork boyz. With luck, the Assaulters will Melee the gitz (although if they are that close your going to want to preemptive charge them) after being thinned out and they still have to contend with what is essentially Nobs... I will note however, that because of they're high cost, DO NOT field them in a 500 point army, and probably no more than 5 in a 1000 point army. Above that and you should have a bit of wiggle room for un-optimal/pricy units in all casual and even low-stakes tourny-type games.

Summary for the OP: Its true they are not the BEST choice. It's true they are general purpose and masters of none, and according to most min/maxers, that means they suck. Are they complete garbage? No. If you like them, and feel you have a place for them, then go ahead and make some. With that said, DO listen at least somewhat to what the Mathhammerers and Points evaluators say, what they say is not untrue. In fact, I believe they actually work best with those very same units that are being suggested to replace them. Just be sure to weigh it with your own personal army choice, and above all, have fun! :D That, and pray that someday they will get a few upgrades in a future codex to make them truly competitive. ^_-
 

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I think Vazzaroth makes a good point. I think that Gitz come down to something...why we play the game. I am no Math guy...but I enjoy using every single unit in the book. I like Orks cuz of the Fluff and I have played them since 2nd edition. I love Gitz...I love Freebooters....that whole concept is great to me. That is likely why no amount of Math will change my perspective on this one.

That being said...==Me== makes some super valid points about killing potential. But I still believe that surviving is as important as killing and there is no talk of that.

Have fun, figure out what is fun for you and enjoy!
 

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I'll use Gitz for lulz, but they are absolutely terrible and suited only for screwing around.

Killing power is just an example, Gitz are outclassed in every other way too.

@Donelbayne: You could theoretically use Gitz to go after armor, but the odds are not in your favor. You'd need S6 and 2 shots, so you're paying 35 points per Git to do so. To get enough shots to reliably hit, you'd need around 10, so that's 350. Lootas are half the price and infinitely superior against the same kind of targets (medium AV, 12 or less). Rokkit Buggies, Kannon batteries, Tankbustas even, all perform better.

Against Terminators, equal points of Shootas will perform better. Since a fully kitted Git costs as much as 7 of them, I can just run that comparison for simplicity. 7 Shootas dish out 14 shotas, 4.67 hit, 2.33 wound, and he fails .389 saves. Meh. The Git has 2 shots, .67 hits, .56 wounds, and if he gets AP2 or less (50% chance with Blastas) will see .37 saves failed (5+ invul for Termies) if not it goes down to .09. Shoota Boyz still win that one, even moreso if they include 'eavy weapons or the Termies have cover or storm shields.

For the price of 10 fully upgraded Snazzguns you can get 66 Shootas or 26 Lootas.

As for combat, a bunch of S4/5 attacks are well and good, but the PK is a staple of any Ork assault unit for a reason. We need it to go after armor, fight off Dreads/MCs and kill characters. Gitz suck at it because they're so expensive,so vulnerable to S8+ and have nothing to fight off heavier stuff.

Shootas are best for a foot shooty army because of the fire they put out, plus they're no slouches in combat with 1 less attack than Sluggas (still 3 each!). Think of the Shoota as 2 extra attacks at I11.

If we're talking survivability, Shootas have more wounds and more bodies for your opponent to work through. 2 wounds doesn't mean much when S8 insta-pops them.

Gitz in theory can be a support unit, but they cost so much that it's impossible to kit them out decenty without spending so much that they become equivalent to a primary unit in terms of cost. I'd much rather pay 500 points on a unit of Nobs in a Battlewagon because they: a) can score, b) have a dedicated Battlewagon, c) can smash anything in combat, d) don't suck :p

@Vazz: I would definitely agree that some times you just have to field something because it's cool. I do the same with ==My== SAG or ==My== Deathwing. What I'm talking about is how Gitz perform in a competitive army (pro tip: they don't). Sure you can always toss them in for fun, but if somebody is going to claim that they are good or even halfway decent, I'm going to correct them for the sake of any newbie looking for advice. I hate people getting bad advice, it doesn't help the hobby if little Timmy hears Gitz are awesome, makes some up and gets in face crushed in every game.

If it's fun for you, field it by all means, but don't fool yourself as to how good they really are.
 

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Wow, um guys, your arguing about a game.................. why were games created????? TO WIN!!!! AND TRASH TALK YOUR OPPENENT!! no..................................................

Gitz are fun to use, meh, 2 wounds each, crappy aim, Possible wonderful damage, and a cookie would be nice too! TRial and Error for the nOobies i say. let them play the Gitz, if they want them in there, give'r snoose eh?! youve officially heard all that you could hear about the pros and cons of Gitz........ make up your mind now and let this thread be done with. for other noobies who read this and are now swayed to either side. Remember, you are throwing dice, its all about lucK!! i played a Dark elder the other weekend and well haha, we all know they are very shooty, and well.... i think everytime he rolled he made 3 shots in, and then i saved 2 of them with my KFF............ ITS ALL ABOUT FUN AND LUCK!! but dont mix the words together cause you'll get a talkin to by one of the head people here, and then your in for a world of trouble!!

SQUIRRELS!
 

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wow

I chose orks because they are as random as they come. Tactics are for seting the list and fielding the list but after that it is endless rampage. I find it hard to fathom mathematical statistics for orks, or the killing probability of shooting with the worst shooting ability race in the game. Orks are like Kamikaze fighters, run as fast as you can while shooting blindly until you collide with the enemy and hope you did good. Mathematical statistics are for space marines, tau, ig, etc.

sugestion: since this is a discussion forum how about more ideas and less preaching about how you are right and everyone else is wrong. why not debate ideas instead of demeaning them.

I like the flash glitz but i field lootas (15), shootas, and nobs (Ghazkulls bodyguards) so i understand that each type has thier place, lootas are gods of dakka but cant fight to save their lives, boyz are good fire power and assault depending on how big the mob is but they die fast. flash glitz are chaotic clean up crews. But as for cowards i have never lost a pack of flash glitz nor had them run away. so i cant relate there.
 
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