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psycannons, I was just wondering what they are and how they work, and are custodians way stronger than all space marines and did they have a second founding? is their more of them than their would be in a regular chaper of SM'S. just annything you have to say on either topic........ I wonder also if Ravenor could have been put in a drednaught, do injuisitors have enough clout to demand to be put into one?
 

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Formerly BrotherAzriel
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OK psycannon,

a psy cannon is based on modified bolter tec, the rounds fired are negatively charged psychic bolt shells, very disruptive against daemons and psykers alike.

An inquisitor probably wouldn't get into a dread because im sure some of the tec is geared specific towards a marines body and the majority of drads are owned by marine chapters, plus inquisitors rely on remaining un noticed for a lot of their work and a dread is kind of noticeable!!!
 

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Archmagos
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psycannons, I was just wondering what they are and how they work, and are custodians way stronger than all space marines and did they have a second founding? is their more of them than their would be in a regular chaper of SM'S. just annything you have to say on either topic........ I wonder also if Ravenor could have been put in a drednaught, do injuisitors have enough clout to demand to be put into one?
Psycannons are a DH variant of heavy bolters that have grav suspensors that let them fire on the move, plus special rounds. I wouldn't say that their shots have a particular effectiveness on psykers as they would a normal being; it just bypasses the warp powers that psykers and daemons use to defend themselves. It also ignores force fields/shielding.

Being the Emperor's bodyguards, yes, they're much better than marines. Supposedly they are to marines as marines are to normal humans.
The Custodes aren't organized into chapters. Chapters only apply to Loyalist SM's. The Custodes have their own organization, though I'm not really sure how it works. I do know that there's supposed to be 10k of them, and 300 of these (called Companions), are the Emperor's elite personal guards who hang around him all the time.
The Second Founding was only for the SM's also.

I kind of disagree with Azriel:
Dreadnoughts can be used by normal humans. It was normal humans (dark age of technology) who first created it, and primarily for use by normal humans. The tech wass designed with humans in mind; its just compatible, or is modified to work with Marines.
Also, not all inquisitors rely on being unnoticed, in fact, some are known for thier unsubtlety like Karamazov and his Dreadnought-like throne, or one of those inquisitor stereotypes who often goes around burning whole populations and declaring Exterminatus on everyone that gets him mad.

Anyways, Inquisitors don't use it partly because pretty much all dreads go to the SM chapters, and that it would just be impractical for an inquisitor to go around in one; remember, unlike SM who train or fight all the time, Inquisitors have a life.
 

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Always Fabulous
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psycannons, I was just wondering what they are and how they work, and are custodians way stronger than all space marines and did they have a second founding? is their more of them than their would be in a regular chaper of SM'S. just annything you have to say on either topic........ I wonder also if Ravenor could have been put in a drednaught, do injuisitors have enough clout to demand to be put into one?
Right, let's get started.

Under the current fluff, the negatively charged psychic material they put in psycannon bolts...nobody knows where it comes from but some people speculate that it is a byproduct of the Golden Throne. Interpret that as you wish. The Adeptus Custodes are about as powerful compared to a Space Marine as a Space Marine is compared to a normal human. They weren't born so much as grown, specifically engineered to accept the genetic code of the Primarchs and the Emperor Himself so they are ridiculously strong. Their current numbers are about the same as one of the old Space Marine legions, with an elite company of 300 called the Companions who attend the Emperor personally. The technology for creating them, much like the Imperator Titans that guard the palace, has long since been lost.

Dreadnoughts are mostly controlled by the Adeptus Astartes and one could argue that the technology since then has deteriorated to the point where the only known pattern is the one used by Space Marines. There may have been Dreadnoughts created specially for humans before but it can't be done now by conventional forge worlds and to even try at this point would constitute techno-heresy, because you're changing the design. Even Marines have gotten in trouble for that in the past (Land Raider Crusader, Predator Annihilator). Also, bear in mind what a Dreadnought represents - you're cut off forever from the physical world and doomed to be cut off from hearing, taste, touch, and smell while you are hooked up with all sorts of intrusive wires and tubes. Penitent Engines are open-topped and even then, they drive people batty. Chaos Dreadnoughts have become hellish prisons that deliberately drive their pilots insane after 10,000 years and even Space Marine Dreadnoughts are kept in stasis when they're not fighting to preserve their minds. For a psyker like Ravenor, a mind is his most precious gift and he's probably better off the way he is now, really.
 

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Son of LO
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Psycannon rounds were once held to be made from shavings off the Emperor's golden throne; once it was realised that this was, you know, a bad thing, it was retconned so that they are a "by-product". Whether it's a mineral or a creepy psyker secretion or the Emperor's recycled spit we don't know. They basically cancel out any psychic shields as well as most energy shields. This was designed specifically to be used against Daemons, who posses only an invulnerable save, not a regular armour save.

Ravenor was not put into a Dreadnought as this would cripple the use of his psychic powers. There are no recorded Dreadnought psykers, librarians, or sorcerers, and it can be assumed that the (intensively painful) process of inhabiting the machine is detrimental to psychic ability and, in many cases, sanity.

It should also be pointed that Dreadnoughts as you are thinking of them cannot be piloted by humans. Karamazov's throne is different; it's a walking chair that he sits on. Dreadnoughts, with a Capital, are Astartes Dreadnoughts. The word dreadnought as a military term is used to describe terminators, penitent engines, killer kans, wraithlords, and possibly crisis suits.

qsd said:
I kind of disagree with Azriel:
Dreadnoughts can be used by normal humans. It was normal humans (dark age of technology) who first created it, and primarily for use by normal humans. The tech wass designed with humans in mind; its just compatible, or is modified to work with Marines.
This isn't correct. Despite being adapted from an STC design, the Imperial Dreadnought is not a piece of Dark Age technology and was never used during said age. It was invented during or near the end of the Great Crusade, and was invented specifically so Marines could return to battle. During the Dark Age of Technology, warfare was conducted entirely through robotic armies, the mythical Iron Men; there would be no need to create such a vehicle as a Dreadnought, as there were no human soldiers to be crippled and then re-integrated.

Creations similar to the Dreadnought would have existed and no doubt inspired it, but they would have been wholly mechanical with no human pilot.
 

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It should also be pointed that Dreadnoughts as you are thinking of them cannot be piloted by humans. Karamazov's throne is different; it's a walking chair that he sits on. The word dreadnought as a military term is used to describe terminators, penitent engines, killer kans, wraithlords, and possibly crisis suits.
Actually, I think the term dreadnought is used for anything that is big and imposing. I read a star wars book and many of the ships in it were referred to as dreadnoughts. (plus alot of my friends that don't play warhammer, actually have heard the word before.)

But I agree with you. I don't think normal humans can pilot a dreadnought. Reason being, only the most powerful and proven warriors are put into a dreadnought, so that they may fight on in the Emperor's name. These warriors are usually space marines. Space Marines are more powerful than any normal human. Unless it is one of the special characters, and as far as I know they are all still alive.
 

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Sparta!
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That would be because a dreadnought was originally a battle ship used by many of the worlds navies, typically a large ship with guns all of the same calibre. That and there was also a British battleship called the HMS Dreadnought (c. 1906) that led to all ships of a similar design being named after it.
Also, a Dreadnought is - when you break it tdown and look at the root words - something that 'fears nothing', an apt name for a heroic space marine determined to continue fighting, no?
 

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Painting Machine!
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Also, a Dreadnought is - when you break it tdown and look at the root words - something that 'fears nothing', an apt name for a heroic space marine determined to continue fighting, no?
Right. There's actually a nice discussion of the word and how they use it in White Dwarf this month.
 

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Archmagos
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Also, bear in mind what a Dreadnought represents - you're cut off forever from the physical world and doomed to be cut off from hearing, taste, touch, and smell while you are hooked up with all sorts of intrusive wires and tubes. .
I'm pretty sure that while its probably augumented by machinery and such, Dreadnought pilots can hear. Otherwise, bad things might happen...


Random SM Captain - "Brother Gaius, cease fire! CEASE FIRE! That is the Chapter Master and his command squad, not the heretics!"

*dakka dakka dakka BOOM!*

Brother Gaius - Sorry, can you say that again?

Karamazov's throne is different; it's a walking chair that he sits on. Dreadnoughts, with a Capital, are Astartes Dreadnoughts.
I used the Throne as an example of how not all Inquisitors sneak around, which is why if an Inquisitor decided to have themselves hooked up to a Dread, it wouldn't necessarily interfere with their job. I mentioned the Throne as Dreadnought-like (Without the unnecessary decorations, its roughly the same size and build as a Dreadnought, plus the legs are very similar), not that its exactly a Dreadnought.
 

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Always Fabulous
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Well yes, inquisitors can have giant walking mechs that they sit upon while they pass judgement upon heretics and such. Such a thing tends to make you a very big target, though, so not all inquisitors are into that sort of stuff. I remember the time I killed Karamazov with a Lascannon to the back...
 

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Archmagos
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This isn't correct. Despite being adapted from an STC design, the Imperial Dreadnought is not a piece of Dark Age technology and was never used during said age. It was invented during or near the end of the Great Crusade, and was invented specifically so Marines could return to battle. During the Dark Age of Technology, warfare was conducted entirely through robotic armies, the mythical Iron Men; there would be no need to create such a vehicle as a Dreadnought, as there were no human soldiers to be crippled and then re-integrated.

Creations similar to the Dreadnought would have existed and no doubt inspired it, but they would have been wholly mechanical with no human pilot.
As far as I know, apparently neither is correct actually. IA2 states that the origins of the Dread are unknown and the records are lost. (The usual explantion for imp. tech...:|)

There was a use for Dreadnoughts/Dread equivalents during the time though. Towards the end of the Dark Age, the Iron Men rebelled against the humans.
When a fully equipped and programmed combat robot can presumably be built in days or weeks, as opposed to the comparatively longer time needed to raise and train a human soldier, even with cloning technology, the humans would probably need all the help they could get.
 
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