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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I like the look of the forgeworld DKoK models, and i immediately started thinking of a list that really represents the history of the DKoK. I plan on using all forgeworld models, I recently came into a lot of money, so price isn't an issue.

HQ: Company Command-70
(lascannon)

Troops: Platoon einsatz
Platoon Comand-50
(lascannon)
4 infantry teams-240
(4 heavy bolters)
heavy weapons team
(lascannons)


Troops: Platoon gewehr
Platoon Comand-50
(lascannon)
4 infantry teams-240
(4 heavy bolters)
heavy weapons team
(lascannons)
special weapons team
(sniper rifles)

heavy: colossus mortar battery (3)-420

heavy: colossus mortar battery (3)-420

I forget the point cost of some units; I don't have my codex with me right now. I know it totals up to 1750 even though.

I don't think it will win very many games, because they aren't mobile at all, and in a KP game, anybody who knows what they're doing will be able to rip apart a static army. But still, I like the idea of massed infantry, and I feel that this list adequately portrays what a DKoK army would look like.

Comments? Suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I would still like to hear competitive advice, because, as a beginning guard player, I would like to know what some possible pitfalls are.
 

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Well, Heavy Bolters are really pretty bad. Sniper Rifles aren't so hot either.

I would be really excited if I could field that many colossi though...wow... talk about anti-horde.
 

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I would still like to hear competitive advice, because, as a beginning guard player, I would like to know what some possible pitfalls are.
Alrighty then!

Your list suffers from three major problems:

1) Lack of Serious Anti-Tank

Mechanized Builds are what the current metagame is all about. So you need to be able to take them down. Autocannons beat Lascannons at killing anything AV12 and lower, and Heavy Bolters can't take down anything heavier than a AV10 Ork Trukk. Lascannons also suck at killing AV14. So ditch both and equip you infantry squads with an Autocannon and Grenade Launcher for maximum dakka.

For the heavy armor out there, you need either melta guns (and a way to get them in range) or some Medusas with BB shells to kill them from afar.

2) Lack of Serious anti-horde weapons.

Put simply, you need flamers to deal with 'Nids and Orks. Most of mine are on my Hellhounds and Chimeras. But you could at least put some on your artillery vehicles and PCS/CCS squads.

3) Lack of Ability to Sieze Objectives.

You need some way of getting your men across the field alive. Two or three Chimeras would work wonders here. If you're committed to no-tanks, then you could drop in Stormies to contest objectives, and/or get some Armored Sentinels in the list to provide a walking shield for your infantry to advance behind. But Chimeras and Valks really work the best.

There's some other things it could use, like a Commissar in each of the infantry platoons to keep your men from running. But these are the major issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
1) Lack of Serious Anti-Tank

Mechanized Builds are what the current metagame is all about. So you need to be able to take them down. Autocannons beat Lascannons at killing anything AV12 and lower, and Heavy Bolters can't take down anything heavier than a AV10 Ork Trukk. Lascannons also suck at killing AV14. So ditch both and equip you infantry squads with an Autocannon and Grenade Launcher for maximum dakka.

For the heavy armor out there, you need either melta guns (and a way to get them in range) or some Medusas with BB shells to kill them from afar.

2) Lack of Serious anti-horde weapons.

Put simply, you need flamers to deal with 'Nids and Orks. Most of mine are on my Hellhounds and Chimeras. But you could at least put some on your artillery vehicles and PCS/CCS squads.
...really? I thought that 9 lascannons and the ability to use "bring it down" on a whole heavy weapons team would be enough anti-tank, and 8 heavy bolters with 6 pie plates would be enough anti-horde, even before "first rank fire, second rank fire" for my lasguns. But I see where some mobility could come in handy. Maybe I'll pick up some chimeras and keep them around for when I want to make it more competitive. Thanks for the input there.
 

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...really? I thought that 9 lascannons and the ability to use "bring it down" on a whole heavy weapons team would be enough anti-tank,
The problem is, these Lascannons are in are in small easy to kill units. 6 T3 AS5+ wounds are just not that hard to do (and what if the enemy has a shuricannons/assault cannons/multilaser/autocannon/any plasma weapons to instant death your weapon teams:sidefrown:).

I would recommend dropping the HWSs and changing all your heavy weapons to Autocannons.

8 heavy bolters with 6 pie plates would be enough anti-horde
What is 8 heavy bolters really? About 12 hits per turn. Probably about 6 wounds. So you'll probably be able to kill 1 mob of orks in 6 turns (unless the orks are in cover, or... kill you).

The Collosus will do well... as long as they never get fired apon (I'm noticing a theme...). In a Mech list this can be alright, as the opponent has lots of OTHER armour threats in his face, but as they are the only vehicles in your force they will face the opponents full anti tank firepower. Furthermore, they are squadroned and open topped, ergo easy to kill.

I'm not sure you how to improve the list without adding mechanized elements (and meltaguns!).
 

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kgoreham is on the ball with his advice. If you want to keep with the DKoK theme with the human waves with heavy weapons you can do this. Put the lascannons in the line squads and combine them (2-3 squads per platoon) and give them a commissar so they don't run away as easily. This way an enemy will have to chew through 15+ wounds to actually get to your lascanons. You can then put autocannons in you heavy weapons squads (4-6 of them).

Mobility is key as well, some scoring units in chimeras would be great, even if they are only the PCSs or SWS squads.

On the collossi, I reccomend splitting them up into 3 units of 2 instead of 2 units of 3
 

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kgoreham is on the ball with his advice. If you want to keep with the DKoK theme with the human waves with heavy weapons you can do this. Put the lascannons in the line squads and combine them (2-3 squads per platoon) and give them a commissar so they don't run away as easily. This way an enemy will have to chew through 15+ wounds to actually get to your lascanons. You can then put autocannons in you heavy weapons squads (4-6 of them).
He'll still need either Medusas or Meltas to kill heavy armor though. You can get lucky with the lascannons. But you can also get very unlucky too, even when shooting a lot of them at a Land Raider or Russ.

BTW, you do need the flamers, even with the artillery. Because you need something to kill hordes/guard/tau with up close, and flamers never deviate or allow cover saves.
 

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how about vendettas and melta vets or melta PCS in chimeras?
 

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how about vendettas and melta vets or melta PCS in chimeras?
Vendettas should be paired with flamer/demo vets, while melta vets should be paired with Valkyries. This is done to avoid conflicting roles. Either you want troops that can pop a tank so the transport can hammer the guys inside, or vice-versa. Nothing's worse than a Vendetta giving up a turn of firing to drop off meltas, or meltas sitting in a transport that's hovering at the back of the table.
 

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Vendettas should be paired with flamer/demo vets, while melta vets should be paired with Valkyries.
hmm the demo charge is abit too much and expensive. if you really need that demo charge desperately then your chances of killing an AV14 at the back can be very slim or base on luck. however if your going for devastators etc marbo works best.

This is done to avoid conflicting roles. Either you want troops that can pop a tank so the transport can hammer the guys inside, or vice-versa. Nothing's worse than a Vendetta giving up a turn of firing to drop off meltas, or meltas sitting in a transport that's hovering at the back of the table.
well i prefer to keep my melta guys in chimeras and use vendettas to hang back with SWS taems with flamers or outflank. depending on what my opponent has. From experience those vendettas and valkyries will be targeted more foten than a chimera. and because you put CCS, vets and PCS into the chimeras. they MUST choose whether to split fire on valkyrie/vendetta or pop your chimeras. either way, you still keep your anti-tank mobile.

Hope my advice helps!

thanks
antique_nova
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Everyone's advice is really helping. I'm currently developing a competitive list that still keeps the feel of the Death Korps of Krieg. I think I'm going to go with a team of flamer vets in a chimera, and 2 teams of melta vets in chimeras, and dropping some infantry squads, and the snipers.

Thanks again, everyone.
 

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hmm the demo charge is abit too much and expensive. if you really need that demo charge desperately then your chances of killing an AV14 at the back can be very slim or base on luck. however if your going for devastators etc marbo works best.
The demo charges aren't for killing tanks. That's what the squad's meltabombs (and their Vendetta) are for. No, the flamer/demo combo is meant to kill an enemy MEQ squad dead, dead, dead. :)
 

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I'm currently developing a competitive list that still keeps the feel of the Death Korps of Krieg. I think I'm going to go with a team of flamer vets in a chimera, and 2 teams of melta vets in chimeras, and dropping some infantry squads, and the snipers.
But, then I think you're losing the Death Korps feel, replacing Infantry Squads with Veterans in Chimeras. I'm a strong advocate of fluffy armies and I'm going to say don't turn your army into another clone of the same competitive list every Imperial Guard player is fielding nowadays. It hurts my head when I check out the Imperial Guard Army List forum and see that the same list has been posted by 6 different people and has recevied the exact same "this sucks, this sucks, take this, take this" comments. It's getting old and very successfully making the Imperial Guard Forum an incredibly boring place to be.

It is possible to stay competitive without taking Veterans in Chimeras/Valykries/Vendettas. If you want Flamers take some SWSs and/or put Flamers in your Infantry Squads. As has been said, use Medusas with Bastion Breachers to deal with armor, forget the Melta-Vets. Monstrous Creaturs die do Melta-Guns, sure, but they also die to lots to of high strength shots like Auto-Cannon Heavy Weapon Teams.

Claiming objectives with an un-mechanized force will be your biggest challenge. The Death Korops way of doing that is similar to the Ork horde, swamp your opponent with so many targets that they can't possibly kill them all in time.

Also remember that players take turns placing objectives. Objective placement is crucial to any successful list, mechanized or not, so use that to your advantage by creating kill-zones and clustering objectives close to each other so that your foot-slogging Infantry only has to advance on one point where you can bring all your force to bear. Furthermore, for the objectives your opponent places too far away for your Infantry Squads to get to, use Colossi and Griffons to hammer their scoring units into oblivion.
 

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The demo charges aren't for killing tanks. That's what the squad's meltabombs (and their Vendetta) are for. No, the flamer/demo combo is meant to kill an enemy MEQ squad dead, dead, dead. :)
marbo does this so much better and you don;t need a squad of 100 points especially when it's troops choices to do this job. ^^. if you want anti-meq. demolishers and marbo are the way to go ^^. and FRFSRF.
thanks
antique_nova
 

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marbo does this so much better and you don;t need a squad of 100 points especially when it's troops choices to do this job. ^^. if you want anti-meq. demolishers and marbo are the way to go ^^. and FRFSRF.
thanks
antique_nova
Marbo can kill MEQs, sure. I take him all the time. But he can't claim an objective. The idea is that the Demo and flamers will allow the vet squad a fair chance of shifting someone off an objective, even in cover.
 

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It hurts my head when I check out the Imperial Guard Army List forum and see that the same list has been posted by 6 different people and has recevied the exact same "this sucks, this sucks, take this, take this" comments. It's getting old and very successfully making the Imperial Guard Forum an incredibly boring place to be.
QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. LOVE LIVE THE INFANTRY PLATOON!
 
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