[Addoran]

A friend and I were discussing the rules for the nid Trygon, when I realised there is a bit of a 'grey area' you might be able to help me answer.

The Trygon has a mass point, and it's rules state it cannot lose normal wounds until you reduce it's mass points to zero. Does this therefore the Trygon is immune to Force Weapons until you remove the mass points?

Something that I'll probably never see, but worth discussing.

 

[tarzen]

p 46, force weapons.

Says if you pass your test, it's dead, no matter. Would really suck, but thems the rules.

Similarly, titans go down incredibly easy to powerfists, even with multiple structure points.

 

[Addoran]

Ah - but can you see the conundrum?

The reference you provided states "As long as one wound has been inflicted, make a psychic test...."

If the thing can't lose a wound in the first place, does it therefore count as invulnerable to the Librarian's Force Weapon? Seems odd to me, I can't justifiably think why a Force Weapon that can kill a Hive Tyrant, Carnifex etc is useless against what is basically a giant Ravener...

It's all very interesting and debatable.

 

[tarzen]

Ah - but can you see the conundrum?

The reference you provided states "As long as one wound has been inflicted, make a psychic test...."

If the thing can't lose a wound in the first place, does it therefore count as invulnerable to the Librarian's Force Weapon? Seems odd to me, I can't justifiably think why a Force Weapon that can kill a Hive Tyrant, Carnifex etc is useless against what is basically a giant Ravener...

It's all very interesting and debatable.

So, after you remove the MP, you're golden.
But before, as you point out, you can't hurt it (outside of removing its mass point).
So, if you get enough hits, 1-remove the mps, 2 kill it outright with force test.

 

[Lost Nemesis]

Well... another example of poorly worded rules..

You could look at it like this:

With a Force Weapon, you score a wound. Note that I said score (inflict) a wound.. you haven't taken one off yet.

Now, all you have to do with the Force Weapon is score (inflict) at least one wound. There is no mention of the enemy model losing a wound.

So, now that you've inflicted at least one wound, the rest of the rules for the Force Weapon would, by a word-for-word reading of the rules, apply.

If it works, the Trygon is killed outright. If it doesn't, then you'd have to go back to the Mass Points thing that I know nothing about.

But unless those Mass Points say that you can't inflict wounds upon it until you take off all the Mass Points thingies, then the Force Weapon will work. The Trygon doesn't have to lose any wounds to the Force Weapon for the FW's special rules to come into play. I'm assuming the Trygon can be wounded?

That's my take on it. Reading from a purely word-for-word perspective.



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[Laplace]

The rules about Gargantuan creatures states that the mass points need to be removed first before taking wounds "as normal".

In my book, that means that you are not wounding at all. Just removing mass points. It just so happens you use the "to wound" rules and table to calculate it.

So once the mass points are removed, yes, it can die in a single hit with a Force Weap. But not before.

Don't like the Trygon anyway for the cost. Only Gargantuan worth fielding for the Nids is the Hierophant. Expensive yes, but one of the best Imp Armour units out there. Decent shooting dmg, good in cc, fast, and will not go down easily because of it's multiple mass points and even a decent invuln save.

 

[Sabe]

Its relatively simple. You have to hit, wound, roll to see if you remove a mass point, and then if you do you can take the test.

You do actually have to cause a wound, you can't just wound it and then take the test even if it passes its save/you fail to take a MP.