Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When a Librarian casts FotA, does he have to have LOS to the spot on the board edge he is casting it to?

The text for FotA does not specifically exempt him from not having LOS, and by the Psychic rules in the basic book, Psychic powers follow the same rules as shooting unless specifically exempted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, that's what I thought.

Technically, though, what that means is that a non-skimmer vehicle is totally immune to FotA. This is because the spot on the board edge must be behind the vehicle for it to be hit, obviously, and that spot is thus blocked from LOS by the vehicle.

This is a RAW interpretation, and probably not what is intended. However, it is inescapably the RAW. While I'm not too fussed about it, since Space Marine Librarians are probably the most overpowered unit in the game and anything that limits their huge effectiveness is a blessing, what would be the best way to reconcile this with the RAW?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,023 Posts
RelicOMO said:
Thanks, that's what I thought.

Technically, though, what that means is that a non-skimmer vehicle is totally immune to FotA. This is because the spot on the board edge must be behind the vehicle for it to be hit, obviously, and that spot is thus blocked from LOS by the vehicle.

This is a RAW interpretation, and probably not what is intended. However, it is inescapably the RAW. While I'm not too fussed about it, since Space Marine Librarians are probably the most overpowered unit in the game and anything that limits their huge effectiveness is a blessing, what would be the best way to reconcile this with the RAW?
No, as you measure LOS from the models eye view, so if the librarian is on a hill with no area terrain in between, and can see over your vehicle, he can designate the point behind it.
But, as mentioned, area terrain does block LOS, so even a corner of it will stop los.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
How do you figure that the power only works if you have LOS to a specific spot on the board edge? In the desciption on p.26 of the C:SM it says that it goes in a straight line to any point on any table edge. The only things that stop FotA is if it would strike a friendly unit or a unit locked in close combat. I can see the point that you need to see a unit to hit it, but there is nothing in any of the rules that says you must be able to see beyond a unit to hit it. If this were the case it would state so in the desciption for FotA. I see nothing in the BBB that says that vehicles can't be hit by FotA. Please enlighten me with a page reference if there is one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Lord Malachi said:
How do you figure that the power only works if you have LOS to a specific spot on the board edge? In the desciption on p.26 of the C:SM it says that it goes in a straight line to any point on any table edge. The only things that stop FotA is if it would strike a friendly unit or a unit locked in close combat. I can see the point that you need to see a unit to hit it, but there is nothing in any of the rules that says you must be able to see beyond a unit to hit it. If this were the case it would state so in the desciption for FotA. I see nothing in the BBB that says that vehicles can't be hit by FotA. Please enlighten me with a page reference if there is one.
The intention is probably that vehicles can be hit by FotA. The reference I see, though, is in the Psychic Powers section under the Characters heading in the Basic Rule Book (p52 in the small version), where it says that Psychic Powers follow the rules for Shooting unless specified otherwise.

FotA does not specifically exempt itself from needing LOS - it never says that it can target things that the Librarian cannot see. A side effect of this is that a vehicle would block LOS to the point on the table edge behind it, meaning that the Librarian cannot see that point and therefore cannot target it.

I used to think that FotA could target anything, even outside LOS. However, I am now starting to believe this is wrong, because it does not specify that it ignores LOS. Every other kind of attack that ignores LOS specifies that fact, and the few kinds of attacks that are similar to FotA do not ignore LOS (vibro cannons, for instance).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
My understanding of FotA is that you pick a point on any board edge to simply determine the direction that the power travels. You don't target a specific unit like you do when shooting most weapons. FotA then travels in the direction chosen, hitting any units in its path until it either reaches the board edge, impassible terrain (e.g. a hill), or a friendly unit or a close combat. One could say that it would stop when hitting a vehicle, as you no longer have LOS past it, but it would still hit the vehicle. Of course the lack of an AP value means you could only cause a glancing hit, that is if the AV were low enough for the strength of FotA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
I can see the argument here going both ways so am not sure which is correct. Fear of the Darkness does not state that it is exempt from LOS so does that mean I can't even cast it if there are no enemy units within LOS? Similarly, Vortex of Doom does not specify that it needs LOS either. But note too that of the all the offensive psychic powers, only one (Storm of the Emporer's Wrath) lists a weapon-like profile with range and weapon type. Doesn't that indicate that this is the only power that follows all the normal shooting rules? The fact that FotD, Vortex and FotA do not seems to me that means they do not follow the regular shooting rules. Considering too that the Librarian can use his psychic hood at any time to try to block every psychic power cast anywhere on the board without needing to even see the enemy psyker, I don't see why not needing LOS for these other powers is so unimaginable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Waterlootian said:
I can see the argument here going both ways so am not sure which is correct. Fear of the Darkness does not state that it is exempt from LOS so does that mean I can't even cast it if there are no enemy units within LOS? Similarly, Vortex of Doom does not specify that it needs LOS either. But note too that of the all the offensive psychic powers, only one (Storm of the Emporer's Wrath) lists a weapon-like profile with range and weapon type. Doesn't that indicate that this is the only power that follows all the normal shooting rules? The fact that FotD, Vortex and FotA do not seems to me that means they do not follow the regular shooting rules. Considering too that the Librarian can use his psychic hood at any time to try to block every psychic power cast anywhere on the board without needing to even see the enemy psyker, I don't see why not needing LOS for these other powers is so unimaginable.
I agree with you 100%
 

·
The Fallen
Joined
·
7,745 Posts
Sighs,
the board edge is a notional thing. stunning as it may seem, marines that walk over it do not fall off the edge of the world, it doesnt really exist.

FotA works like this - the librarian picks a direction and it travels in that direction, the rules are quite clear on what blocks it, that is stuff that stops it going any further, not what stops it being cast.

Picking a spot on the table edge, in LOS or not, casically represents the librarians direction, it goes in that firection until it hits something it can not go through.

So, any point on the table edge can be selected regardless of LOS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Me and my friends were having this argument last night so we finally decided to call GW. They said that FoA goes towards the spot on the table edge selected. LOS and terrain have no effects on it. So you can use FoA to hit a vehicle, a unit that is in any terrain, or a unit that is in the open.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
382 Posts
grand master said:
Me and my friends were having this argument last night so we finally decided to call GW. They said that FoA goes towards the spot on the table edge selected. LOS and terrain have no effects on it. So you can use FoA to hit a vehicle, a unit that is in any terrain, or a unit that is in the open.

Not saying your wrong...but don't count on everything the GW boys say to be correct.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top