Librarium Online Forums banner

I am a...

  • UK gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 18 37.5%
  • UK gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • US gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 10 20.8%
  • US gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 2 4.2%
  • European gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • European gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 2 4.2%
  • Australian gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Australian gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rest of the world gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 5 10.4%
  • Rest of the world gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    Votes: 4 8.3%
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was just reading an article on BOLS and someone said something that made me think. They were talking about the impending 8th edition of WFB and someone talked about the rising popularity of the PP games like warmachine and hoards, and how this edition change could be their chance to steal a big chunk of the market at a time when numbers playing WFB are quite low. At first I nodded to myself, I'm always hearing on these forums and blogs about this warmchine game, models appear from time to time on CMON, theres even a forum on LO for them, they must be a major threat to GW. Then I stopped and thought.

How come I've only ever heard of them on these forums? I'm from the UK, and along with Europe we form the largest userbase of GW players. The US is unfortunately quiet a small part of GW's business, and one they have always struggled to exploit. Are there actually warmachine players of any number here in GW's heartland? None of my friends have heard of them, but lots of people, even non gamers have some idea of 'that warhammer game from the shop with the loud people in on the highstreet'. When I go into WH Smiths to buy a magazine I can have White Dwarf, a mag on toy soldiers and a couple of publications that concentrate on historical gaming. Apart form the small 'dark futures' section of one wargaming mag there is nothing that even mentions other scifi gaming and other fantasy games are ignored totally. If I want to go into a shop that sells wargaming miniatures I have a few options. GW stores are by far the most common, there are 17 within 25 miles of my house. After that come Hobbycraft, there are 2 I go to regularly and the odd toyshop.

The toyshops don't stock much, mainly 40k. I once managed to find an independent gaming store while on holiday in Devon. The only options apart from the internet are GW, and the small amount of Flames of War and traditional historical gaming at hobby craft. If I was not already a gamer and thus browsing these sites I would never have heard of warmachine, lets face it you don't just stumble onto Wayland Games.

Am I missing loads of PP stockists in the UK, or are they not really a threat in the Heartlands of GW support that make up about 70% of their market?

I thought I'd try a little pseudo scientific experiment, please vote above :D
 

·
Professional Lurker
Joined
·
2,085 Posts
I think it's a shame that no one else is posting in this thread, because it seems like one of the more interesting threads to come along. In the spirit of things I'll throw out my experiences. Every Privateer Press player I know, I know through LO. Of the two hobby shops I'm ever in one stocks a small amount of PP stuff and the other might. Maybe, it's been like two years.

I personally don't play PP games, I've never been such a huge fan of the models or background and so never looked into the rules.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,049 Posts
I am in the UK, the only time I've seen warmachine/PP/flames of war/secrets of the third Reich, was when I went to a huge hobbies expo to help my dad drive trains(g scale, not real ones) :p

The models seen nice, but they are pricing themselves out of the market. I would expect them to be quite cheap, but they are almost on par(if not more than) with GW.

I bought a few heads for the secretes of the third Reich range, the guy asked me if I played and I told him I was using them for GW.
He then looks at me stangely as if to say, your one of them, he then just finished serving me as quickly as he could and went back to playing his confusing looking games.
 

·
LO's Shadow Captain
Joined
·
12,783 Posts
Privateer Press is a US based company; GW is a UK based company, and is much larger (or at least seems to be!). Several shops I know of in my area alone carry PP models, books and have at least a few players, none of which I've known to be on LO. It makes sense; I'm a big fan of PP for several reasons, a big one including the fact that I like to support companies from my own country, just as I would enjoy supporting GW more if I were living in the UK.

@sonoftheemperor - PP models aren't much cheaper, individually, than GW models, but you can play the game with significantly fewer of them, given the differences in the structure of the games and the list designs.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So are there lots of independent traders in the US? In the UK you are never far from a shop that sells toy soldiers, but they are almost always citadel miniatures or 1:72 historical models. There used to be a model shop in my own town when I was a child, but that has long since shut down, and Virgin Megastores used to sell models, but they were dropped in favour of more computer games long before they shut down. To me there are two holy grails of modelling when I go on holiday around England. The first is a shop that sells high density polystyrene and the other is a shop where I can find other models I can convert into my GW ones, two things which I get the impression are abundant in the US. Ironically they are both things I think were available in the eighties and early nineties in the UK. If I remember correctly GAME stores even used to have a gaming table in, although I'll need a UK venerable longbeard to tell me if my memory is playing tricks on me.

I wonder if that has an effect on the strong 'competitive' element the stateside hobby (supposedly) has, and the more casual flavour it (supposedly) has in Europe, with the US having more approachable, open gaming shops were you can go and play, that will host small tourneys. Either way forums like this, where a broad range of people meet seem to have the effect of blurring the lines. My friend Rafici reads LO a lot now and you couldn't find anyone more committed to finding the perfect competitive list than him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
That is true - Its why i started using the forum.

I have to say in south london there is not much but GW. There used to be a big hobbie craft but that closed sometime whilst i was at uni. There is a small one near me which is great for stuff for scenery, very good but the rest of the store is mostly remote control cars etc or train stuff. The scenery stuff i talk about is mostly for trains but its good and cheaper.

I've just been looking at Privateer Press website - not the first time as i have stumbled on it from peoples links but never really looked into it. I agree with Mat on the parts - some i like but i like what i could do with them in my SM army. Nothing seemed to work with my tau army. I do love the 30mm bases, the sides are very nice. They do have some nice models but they need to improve that website to make it more simple to see their products.
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
859 Posts
The other half and I tend to go to Reading to get ours, there's a shop literally opposite the train station that satisfies his PP fondness and my own Dice enthusiasm.

The kurb up to the door is a bit steep but the shop is deceptively large.
 

·
LO's Resident Time Lord
Joined
·
3,270 Posts
There are quite a few independent retailers here in the U.S. There are two of them within an hour's drive of where I live, with one of them being about 20 minutes away.

As to the scarcity of PP in the UK, I think LN hit it on the head. PP is a U.S.-based company (Washington state, I think). I personally have yet to play a single Warmachine game, though I finally have some models painted up and am raring to go.

It's true that you don't need a lot of models to play Warmachine/Hordes... for now. What's ironic is that PP, when they came out about 5-10 years ago, touted itself as "not being GW." They proudly pointed out how there were NO codices/army books, that the rules and ALL faction (their word for individual armies and races) updates came in a single volume, with updates for every faction all in one place. They also took pride in the fact that ALL the models in their range are metal, not like the sissy GW plastics, and crowed about how they were a skirmish-based game that was supposed to be easy on the wallet.

Then came the MKII revamp of the rules. In what PP says is an attempt to simplify the re-introduction for all factions, they've decided to release faction-specific books (known to the rest of us as... codices/army books), which means those of us looking to read up on the other factions in know-your-enemy fashion are now forced to do what we do in 40k... buy copies of all the books, whether you own the army or not.

Also, while it IS possible to play small skirmishes, it does appear that the trend of late has been to make armies bigger and bigger and bigger, especially if you want more than one warcaster (which some argue is where the REAL fun can begin in this game). PP has also announced a new box set, one for each of the factions, featuring a new warjack with interchangeable parts, allowing you to build multiple variants. The new kits are all made entirely out of... plastic.

Way to stick it to 'em, PP! I'll still play it because I like the fluff, the models are fun, and the rule system is easier to understand than all but the most recent GW offerings, but the "play with us because we're not GW" argument has all but evaporated.
 

·
LO's Shadow Captain
Joined
·
12,783 Posts
Canew - as of now (who knows what could change in the future, but I've learned to take PP at what they say), the Mk. II faction books are a one-time deal intended to do exactly what they've said - update each faction in its entirety for Mk. II. They have stated that they fully intend on returning to the expansion-book-updates in the future, which is something that I like about their system.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
LO's Resident Time Lord
Joined
·
3,270 Posts
Canew - as of now (who knows what could change in the future, but I've learned to take PP at what they say), the Mk. II faction books are a one-time deal intended to do exactly what they've said - update each faction in its entirety for Mk. II. They have stated that they fully intend on returning to the expansion-book-updates in the future, which is something that I like about their system.
I certainly hope so, too, but again, with the ever-expanding standard of army size, and now PLASTIC models, I'm not sure anymore. Oh, well. We'll see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Honestly until I came to LO I never heard about anything PP. Maybe a few bits and pieces but I always assumed it was something like Heroscape. A cheap game I could buy at wal-mart
 

·
Consumate professional
Joined
·
2,863 Posts
The more I read about MK2 Warmachine the more interested I get- and it is easy enough to get the stuff in the UK online, even Amazon sell it!

Unless you have a good independant games club locally though I dont know where you would play it, there just isn't the infrastructure in the UK that GW have.
 

·
i am da Wahhchief
Joined
·
2,419 Posts
i have 5 independant warhammer stores within 10 miles from my door, one of them sells warmachine/hordes, with enough gaming tables to play during the day.
The warmachine is very popular in central Netherlands and there are about as many tournaments for that as for WHfantasy. Mostly because the game is meant to be smaller scaled and games can be quick as a cardgame
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
I live in Canada, and I have never seen a single PP game played. I've seen a warmachine book on the shelf of my LGS for a few years now, it's getting quite dusty.

But I live in a city of around 170,000 people (Including the surrounding area, which does not have any gaming stores), of that we have two gaming stores, both 40k focussed. I think that PP is still mainly US based, they are struggling to convince foegrien retailers to stock their product when they can get stock that they can more reliably move from GW.

The Emperor Protects
 

·
Ancient Spacefarer
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
I can safely say that I'm a collector of PP miniatures ever since my 24th birthday last year (December), I've only just discovered this really cool model shop called Inner Sanctum Collectables , about just over a miles walk from Uni. they have a load of games that I have never seen before.

This shop is really cool, there was no staff member in your face the moment you step into the place and the music is not too loud, unlike the GW down the road. It really is a nice haven for collectors, gamers to hunker down to model, paint, game or simply just look around the place without feeling uncomfortable, in my loacl GW, the staff members have this strict rule of "Only GW games are allowd to be played in the GW store" of which is fair enough but, Inner Sanctum has none of that nonesense which is cool :).
They also hold their own tournaments/leagues/campaigns to those who want to play (provided that they get enough players), as they have tonnes of gaming space that can be hired to hold small event such as a local Tournament of some type. According to the shop owner, "This shop is built and run to keep the wargaming community alive in all it's forms and varieties", I love the bloke already :).

I liked the look of Warmachine Cryx, particularly there 'jacks (gotta love 'em), so I picked up the Iron Lich Asphyxious model to put together and paint, it is up until then that I made the vow to put together and paint this miniature before getting any others. Otherwise I'll get the "shiny model syndrome" that I had with GW :p.

Haven't seen the rules yet as at the moment, I'm putting together the models that I like, so I can't really comment on that.

From where I'm sitting GW is definitely more expensive than that of PP, I suppose it all depends on the type of army that your collecting really. *shrug* Dunno, maybe I'll take a more in-depth look at it later :p.


-Kai-Itza-
 
G

·
I've heard of them since getting into 40k, mostly from on Youtube and shows etc. But if I do take up fantasy battles it will more than likely be WHFB 8th ed.

Having my own campaign at home means I can mish mash rules a bit. So I use 40k for ground battles, Necromunda for resistance gangs, and I'm planning out how to do starships, likely it may be Firestorm Armada as it looks simpler than BFG. But that's all sci fi, for fantasy I've not decided even IF I'll take it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Firestorm Armada as it looks simpler than BFG
Bfg isnt that difficult once you play a game or two, and the rules are extremely sound ( which is why they are still on their 1st or 2nd edition)
 
G

·
actually it's only on that as it's out of print. They canned it. I've done my own rules now, based off 40k, quickfire and simple. Thanks anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
What a timely thread! I was just looking at the Warmachine minis the other day at my local gaming/comcs/toy store. I had seen them out of the corner of my eye before, and had recently visited the ( poorly laid out ) Warmachine website, and was a tad intrigued by what I saw. When I actually looked at the models and factions close up however, I must say I was not impressed. They aren't horrible by any means, they just don't appeal to me the way 40k does, but neither does WHFB, for that matter.

As for the geography question, I don't know anybody that plays PP games, nor have I ever seen anyone playing them at the stores I go to here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
i personally think that pps models are alot better than most of gws fantasy models.. and it just seems to me that they are a bit more supoportive of their games than gw
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top