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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone,

I am a regular Imperial Guard but have recently begun a Black Templars army. My friend with whom I play 40k most often has just bought a rather large force of Tyranids. I've played against his Genestealers with my guardsmen, and while obviously I get massacred in hand to hand, its not that big of a deal, after all, they're only guardsmen. Seeing him roll a handful of 6s is fairly irrelevant as my guardsmen fall to their flurry of attacks damn quickly regardless. However, as I play him with Black Templars, I am considerably more worried about them. This is compounded by the fact that I don't have a single weapon in my army that shoots more than a foot (bolt pistols and meltaguns exclusively) I am sort of fearful of getting shredded, especially if he gets the charge. I was thinking of getting some Terminators with 2 assault cannons (to ironically give them a taste of rending haha) but also for the sheer volume of shots it puts out. I was also considering getting a squad of 10 Grey Knights, all those storm bolters might do the trick too. However, are there less expensive ways of dealing with Genestealers with the Black Templars? I play a very infantry heavy, footslogging list so that might just be part of the problem, haha!
 

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One word my friend. Dreadnought
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I guess Dreadnoughts would be effective - I guess I am fearful of that strength 6 broodlord my friend takes - which means any roll of a six is a penetrating hit with the extra dice added. I do suppose the assault cannon (ideally followed by a heavy flamer) is a good proposition, though, and the powerfist is sure to squad a few bugs. Plus, I've always wanted to paint a dreadnought, haha.
 

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Well if the dread thing doesn't work there is always the psychotic assault squad that is more than willing to face them. There is only the problem of the rending. Although when you get the charge on nids they seem kinda fuzzy, you know cute. Why would you be scared about charging nids, after all you are taking away their charge. And that's how you beat the nids. In the end nothing beats a genestealer squad like a suicidal death charge out in the open =D (although if they are already in the open don't hesitate to shoot them, but what fun is that :p)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was thinking of baiting them with a relatively smaller Crusader squad and then flying in the Assault Marines to guarantee the bonuses, plus the reroll as my Chaplain flies with them. My opponents cunningly use multiple smaller Genestealer squads to avoid getting bogged down.
 

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Bolt guns will take care of them just fine and a heavy bolter will do good also. Dreadnought will be affected and will kill them before they kill him. But then you might have other stuff charging your Dread that can kill it. Just shoot them to bits in my opinion with heavy bolters.
 

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The easiest and cheapest way for you to deal with Genestealers is to just take a Land Speeder Tornado or two with a heavy bolter and assault cannon and shred them before they reach your models.

The downside to this is that LSTs eat up some of your valuable Fast Attack slots, so you may want to go with a Predator Destructor or two instead. Armed with heavy bolter sponsons and extra armor you should be able to easily tear even large broods of those close combat monsters to tiny pieces.

Good luck,

Katie D
 

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As a talking head for the Hive Mind, I'd have to say with genestealers vs Black Templar, the things I dislike most are heavy bolters, and assaults out of Landraider Crusaders. Assault cannons are also very effective, since even without rending, their strength and AP vs stealers amount to about one kill per hit!

Bolters are OK but in general you'll only get to use them once before close combat happens, and only 1/6 shots are kills vs stealers with extended carapace (which is pretty common round here). Bolt pistols are not so hot due to their short range - you have to move forward to use them, and my stealers just call that 'home delivery'.

In close combat, the stealers will go first unless you're in cover - even if you're charging. You will, on average, lose about one marine per two stealers in every attack, and more than this if you let them make the assault. In return your surviving marines will inflict about one casualty per 8 attacks with standard assault marines, and about 1 per 2 attacks with the powerfist. You can raise this to 1/6 per standard attack with the right vow.

In planning your assaults you need your squads to support each other and not let single squads get attacked by multiple broods of stealers - which is where the nightmare truly starts.

Dreadnoughts are indeed good for tying down stealer broods, but even regular stealers can penetrate and kill them with rending. On average, about 6-7 stealers will produce one glance or pen per round of combat. You'll kill about 2 stealers every round in return. Dreadie weapons are also pretty good, but flamers can be tricky to use as stealers can reliably assault from outside flamer range.

Stealers are also efficient and effective vs ICs, so make sure they have lots of friends with them!

Unless you're facing an all-stealer swarm, prioritise the stealers but don't obsess over them. There are plenty of other dangers in a well-bred Tyranid force, and even lowly gaunt broods can lock squads in place while the effective cc gribblies move up.
 

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The easiest and cheapest way for you to deal with Genestealers is to just take a Land Speeder Tornado or two with a heavy bolter and assault cannon and shred them before they reach your models.

Katie D
I must admit, the landspeeders are a pretty good bet - but I would go down a slightly different path. Take heavy flamers, if you can!

I have used heavy flamer toting landspeeders vs 'nids before, and they work wonders. You are fast enough to make the short range no longer a problem, and they kill any genestealer they touch on a 3+, regardless of cover. Two of those babies flying around, and you can priority choose a squad to kill a turn (until those monstrous shooty creatures bring your birds down!)
 
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I must admit, the landspeeders are a pretty good bet - but I would go down a slightly different path. Take heavy flamers, if you can!

I have used heavy flamer toting landspeeders vs 'nids before, and they work wonders. You are fast enough to make the short range no longer a problem, and they kill any genestealer they touch on a 3+, regardless of cover. Two of those babies flying around, and you can priority choose a squad to kill a turn (until those monstrous shooty creatures bring your birds down!)
I thought about this too, but for very few more points you get the ability to stay a full 24" away and fire two weapons that are excellent for dealing with medium infantry rather than one that you need to be around 5" away to use at its best. The assault cannon can also come in handy against Monstrous Creatures with its Rending ability (though so could the multi-melta, admittedly).

Katie D
 

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I thought about this too, but for very few more points you get the ability to stay a full 24" away and fire two weapons that are excellent for dealing with medium infantry rather than one that you need to be around 5" away to use at its best. The assault cannon can also come in handy against Monstrous Creatures with its Rending ability (though so could the multi-melta, admittedly).

Katie D
Yeah, thats all very true!

I guess I just have a different playing style, I prefer 1 definite kill shot vs many potentials over the game. Seeing as I don't have to roll to hit with the flamer, and only MEQ's (and invulnerables) will get a save of any kind, the flamer is just an attractive choice to me. With an assault cannon/heavy bolter, you have to roll to hit, to wound, and then your opponent gets his cover saves. I dont like all those moments where my famous bad luck will out!

I tend to hide the landspeeder 'till its needed, and then hope I dont roll too many 1's and 2's!

If it dies afterwards, I dont really care - hopefully it will have already broken your opponent's battle plan :)

And i'm sure you've noted - typically, the one unit that you HAVE to kill at the last moment is almost always in cover....


I suppose though, from what he has said about the rest of his army, some long ranged firepower would not go astray - so maybe the heavy bolter/assault cannon combo would be the best option anyway. :)
 

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Bolters

I am going to endorse all of the comments above which refer to bolters and heavy bolters. These are ideal anti-tyranid weapons in the hands of space marines. If you have a lot of bolt pistols then you should ideally be looking at platforms to put these weapons on and I think Katie is right to suggest predators or Landspeeders. A dreadnought wouldn't go amiss either.

The thing to remember here is that you will be concentrating a key element of your army, ie firepower, in a small number of units. You will want to diversify as if you take two of the same sort of solution and your opponent is tooled up to counter that type of unit then you will find yourself bereft of firesupport before you csn say

"Is that guy's skin sort of purple?"
 

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Not much help if you only have bolt pistols, but din't take flamers unless your jumping out of a Rhino. Stealers Fleet and will run right past that flame template.
 

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If you're planning on using a dread, load it out with either an assault cannon or heavy bolter and a heavy flamer, then drop pod it in right on top of the Stealers. So long as your scatter isn't horrible, you can reliably roast the vast majority of a brood in one salvo. Once you've burned away most of the unit, the Dread can usually see off the survivors on his own and move on to scorch anything else in reach.

Of course, there are caveats here: drop him alone into a seething ocean of 'nids, he's going to die. Drop him in front of even more rending 'nids, he's going to die. Drop him in front of a tooled-up Carnifex... You guessed it - he's going to die.

Long story short, this sort of drop pod Dread is great for a one squad knockout punch, but it's vital that your troops punch through to support his strike if you're looking for more than a few crispy bugs and a dead dread out of the deal. For a different approach, substitute a big, flamer heavy block of Marines for the Dread and watch the fireworks.
 

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I agree with the stand back and blast away with long ranged bolters and assult cannons, fleet oculd be hell if they roll a 6, but they are just as likely to roll a 1. Have a few squads with heavy bolters and full bolt guns and they can just smash the nids. Also a dev squad on an elevated platform with full bolters would be great, but they will be a definate target for any tyranid shots.
 

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I don't know about Ravenwing - but BA can take landspeeders with heavy flamer/heavy bolter. I've found that they are really effective against stealers. If you want a more ranged approach, take a AC/HB speeder. Thats a great thing to field against any Tyrannid force (except maybe nidzilla army).
 
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