[Ebon Hand]

Haven't played dark eldar since before 5th and I'm looking at getting them going again. Are webway portal and jetbike armies still viable armies in 5th?

Also, what are people's experiences with grotesques? They seem pretty attractive in 5th.

 

[Toloran]

Haven't played dark eldar since before 5th and I'm looking at getting them going again. Are webway portal and jetbike armies still viable armies in 5th?

Also, what are people's experiences with grotesques? They seem pretty attractive in 5th.

Right now the metagame is dominated by vehicles of all shapes and varieties due to their overall increase in durability (even for our flying cardboard boxes). So any list you see has to either follow that trend (armor spam) or counter it in some way. Luckly for Deldar, we're exceptionally good at both. So now the pendulum has swung back in the other direction away from WWP lists and back to Raider Spam.

WWP armies are now in disfavor due to the removal of target priority and the relative invulnerability against shooting of Independent Characters (so you can't just put the WWP on a haemonculus and hide him behind another unit). Additionally, the main benefit of WWPs (hiding models off the board so they can't be killed) has been lost now that every mission lets you hold models in reserve. So overall, WWP lists are still viable but not quite as mandatory as they were before. As for jetbikes, Their small numbers, inability to capture objectives (unlike Guardian Jetbikes), and the prevalence of vehicle mounted high strength weaponry (usually anti-tank weapons) they've lost a lot of their appeal.

As for groteques? Not so good, at least from personal experience. The problem is that they aren't particularly lethal and get shredded in close combat due to not having an armor save. They make a decent screening unit but (again) due to Raider Spam being the popular choice and their lack of fleet, they can't keep up with the rest of the army.

 

[Glavas]

Right now the metagame is dominated by vehicles of all shapes and varieties due to their overall increase in durability (even for our flying cardboard boxes). So any list you see has to either follow that trend (armor spam) or counter it in some way. Luckly for Deldar, we're exceptionally good at both. So now the pendulum has swung back in the other direction away from WWP lists and back to Raider Spam.

WWP armies are now in disfavor due to the removal of target priority and the relative invulnerability against shooting of Independent Characters (so you can't just put the WWP on a haemonculus and hide him behind another unit). Additionally, the main benefit of WWPs (hiding models off the board so they can't be killed) has been lost now that every mission lets you hold models in reserve. So overall, WWP lists are still viable but not quite as mandatory as they were before. As for jetbikes, Their small numbers, inability to capture objectives (unlike Guardian Jetbikes), and the prevalence of vehicle mounted high strength weaponry (usually anti-tank weapons) they've lost a lot of their appeal.

As for groteques? Not so good, at least from personal experience. The problem is that they aren't particularly lethal and get shredded in close combat due to not having an armor save. They make a decent screening unit but (again) due to Raider Spam being the popular choice and their lack of fleet, they can't keep up with the rest of the army.

Grotesques + wyches would be mean. Good CC, if you win you auto break them.

Glavas

 

[Toloran]

Grotesques + wyches would be mean. Good CC, if you win you auto break them.

Glavas

I've thought of that (but haven't tried it) and here's the problem:

Right now in 5th edition, the winner of close combat is determined by which side loses the most wounds. So here we run in to our first problem: The enemy can effectively double the amount of wounds they inflict in the assault by targeting their attacks against the Grotesques instead of the Wyches. Actually, it is possibly more then that because they won't half their WS when attacking the Grotesques (unlike against the Wyches due to wych weapons). Since the entire side takes the same modifier (even if one unit took all the wounds and the other none), that is likely a huge amount.

The second problem is with the Wyche themselves: They aren't really lethal, per se. They're fast, get a lot of attacks, and hard to damage (due wych weapons and dodge) but they don't have any unit wide special melee attacks (power weapon, rending, etc) and they're only S3 (1/6th of the time S4). So generally, you aren't going to be dealing a lot of wounds but that's ok because the wych's durability means neither is the opponent. So as long as we deal at least 1 more wound then the opponent does, we still win. However, this is the crux of the matter: The enemy is going to be dealing more wounds then they would normally would against wyches due to the grotesques.

There is one last problem with Grotesques and if it weren't for this there might not have been a problem: Their initiative. Since they're slower then MEQs, that means the MEQ can likely kill off a number of them before they get a chance to swing back. If they were as fast or faster then MEQs, then they could potentially make up for the wounds they'll inevitably take (since they get as many attacks on a charge as wyches most of the time and are S4 to boot). However since they are slower, they are likely to loose a couple first and since Grotesques are kind of expensive... =\