[CaptainSarathai]

Hi all. Been suffering the losing streak from hell because my BT keep losing to more 'assaulty' armies. I going to post what I have, but I'd appreciate if perhaps you'd give some advice on how to make it better .

40tactical marines
10 w/ pistol+cc
3 w/ flamers
3 w/ rockets

20 assault marines
2 w/ power fists
1 w/ power weapon
1 w/ plasma pistol

2 landspeeders

5 assault terminators
lightning claws

1 Dreadnaught

1 Predator

2 Rhinos

1 Chaplain in terminator armor

1 chaplain with jump-pack

1 emperor's champion (duh!)

1 commander

1 commander with jump-pack

Against Tau, Necrons, Gaurd, and armies that like to shoot at me, I have no problem. I never really had any trouble until the new rules came out (but that's besides the point). Now though where I play people make lists with next-to-no upgrades on their models, and flood me with guys that can fight better? I know I could shoot the heck out of them, but I play Templars and am slightly limited. Is there anything I could do to make my army better (models and/or equipment).

 

[Cadian7th]

First off your probably best writing up the list that keeps getting kicked to the floor, as what you have listed Isn't game legal. This will give us an Initial Idea as to where your going wrong build wise.
I'd start by taking the hit on 3's vow for the EC :yes:

 

[Knight721]

First off your probably best writing up the list that keeps getting kicked to the floor, as what you have listed Isn't game legal. This will give us an Initial Idea as to where your going wrong build wise.
I'd start by taking the hit on 3's vow for the EC :yes:

first of all he is giving us a list of his units not his gamin list and second if your being out assaulted with bt you arent playing them right.ccs get rhinos shooty squads get bolters. they should be moved in quickly so they can get the charge none of this im standing back and waiting. you should be on them like white on rice. vehicles. i like a blitzkrieg type aproach with my templars and it normaly works.

 

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

Id suggest removing all the flamers, and instead taking melta guns. Squads of 10 are best, every 10 guys should have a power fist, through in a few neos if you want,

What vow are you taking?

 

[CaptainSarathai]

Hit on 3 unless something wierd is going on

 

[Foxen]

I may disagree with the flamer removal comment. I command Wolves, and they need Meltas in their squads BECAUSE they have no tank bustin' gear...your BTs have missiles and then some, and you sound like you can handle armor units.

It really depends what you're dying to against in close-combat. If you age getting wiped by SWARMS (Orcs/Nids) you might actually want to consider keeping your flamers. The template weapons amazingly do take out these poor armor-save creatures and in mass especially when they are all bunched up charging you by foots (more nids than orks I presume).

If you are getting slaughtered by better armor-save models, I cannot but reinterate what one of our comrades have already posted. If the BT can (I don't have their codex), shove a power-fist in there under the vet sgt. and/or take additional powerfists/power weapons if possible. Space Wolves can load up on these...I think there's manufacturing plant on Fenris or something but we get them by the dozens and cheaply too...having 3 power fists in your ten marine pack is going to DO a lot of damage.

If the hordes are coming in like crazy, I suggest planting a few 8-10 man squad marines with flamers up front to let them "soak" the initial punch of the opponents charge...hopefully they'll survive (c'mon, 10 marines, they can take it!)...and if so, your assault squads can then charge in the subsequent round to deal out their damage along with the Emperor's Champions and then some. You can also teleport homer your Terminators in behind one of these punching bag flamer squads and they can charge in for mass damage and attack.

Just a few thoughts.

Fox

 

[chickenpowder]

Whatever you do keep ur LSTs. Tornados shoot the hell out of just about every CC swarm army in existence (come on, nids, orks, they fall by the dozen against a good LST barrage).
Then maybe u could have a few big bolter squads in drop pods. They could come down right next to ur own assault units and rapid-fire a round before the assault starts. Swarm armies DO NOT have good armour saves.

 

[Ezekiel1990]

It really depends what you're dying to against in close-combat. If you age getting wiped by SWARMS (Orcs/Nids) you might actually want to consider keeping your flamers. The template weapons amazingly do take out these poor armor-save creatures and in mass especially when they are all bunched up charging you by foots (more nids than orks I presume).

Most tyranids that assault you have a 18"-24" area in which they can get into combat on one turn. So the chances of being able to use a flamer before being assaulted is unlikely. However, bikes and assautl squads can move 12", thus making the flamer more effective, since you have a good chance of being able to use it before being charged.

Part of having an assaulty army yet remianing effective is to have some backup. I would suggest just a whole bunch of assaulty squads with 2-3 long-ranged units. For BT, I would suggest a Predator Annihilator or a venerable dreadnought with TLLC, ML and tank hunters.

IF you still have problems, then you're going to have to stick with a bunch of smaller squads. This allows you to take more special weapons and such than using fewer big squads, but you will be forced to take many morale checks and it will be very risky.

 

[Silver Wings]

Two thoughts. Tyranids and Orks absoloutly loathe LST's. You can kill 10 Genestealers a turn with 3 of them. And BT hate Genestealers.

Otherwise. Vindicator, death tank. Squishes anything it come across but is still BT ish, more so that a Predoator sit back and shoot. Close in with PotMS and start pounding him.

 

[Ebon Hand]

Neophytes. You have none of them.
They are cheaper than initiates, and are just as good in close combat. Use them in any close combat squad to add numbers and prectect your special weapons. Hell, use them in your ranged squads too if you want. It never hurts to put Neophytes in a squad.

Get some powerfists as well. Its no wonder people are beating you in close combat when you have no close combat special weapons. Don't ever let anyone tell you that the bolter initiates aren't good too. As you said, they help win you the game against other shooting armies.

In general, you want flamers only on units that can move 12 inches. Rhino Squads, Bikes, and Assualt Squads all do good with flamers. Use meltas instead with crusader squads on foot. The Tornados are good, use them to support your army but dont get overzealous with them, they have low armour and die easily.

This is just for starters. Post an army list and what your common opponents, and we can help you find some combos using the stuff you have.

 

[Bob Dole]

Neophytes. You have none of them.
They are cheaper than initiates, and are just as good in close combat. Use them in any close combat squad to add numbers and prectect your special weapons. Hell, use them in your ranged squads too if you want. It never hurts to put Neophytes in a squad.

I've said the same thing before, and then I realized it's not entirely true. The Neophytes have a slightly worse WS than Initiates. When you attack this isn't such a huge deal, however if you're attacked with Neophytes in the majority, people will hit you on that lower WS instead of the regular one.

 

[Everhard]

I've said the same thing before, and then I realized it's not entirely true. The Neophytes have a slightly worse WS than Initiates. When you attack this isn't such a huge deal, however if you're attacked with Neophytes in the majority, people will hit you on that lower WS instead of the regular one.

when will you have more neophytes then initiate? if you play it good you will always have majority of initiate's, I think Neophytes are good just 10 pts (a cheaper model cant be found in Sm) for a good CC role and back up for your more expensive initiate's

 

[Ebon Hand]

You can decide at the beginning if you want more initiates than neophytes, but you cannot start out with more neophytes than intiates. More initiates costs more points but is more protected, while neophytes are more expendable and cheap but obviously more vulnerable. In either case, majority fluctuates turn by turn as you take casualties.

As ruthless as it sounds, its best to time it so that your Neophytes take the harshest shooting and the attacks that ignore power armour because of their more expendable cost, and reach close combat with Initiates as the majority. But this is something that shouldn't be worried about since we have little control over it. Only the strong survive.

I've never found neophytes to hurt the squads performance because of their lower weaponskill. My Neophytes at times have shown heroism as grand as my Initiates, slaying the likes of Possessed Chaos Marines and Carnifexes, with a modest sword slash that would otherwise might not have been there if not for their cheap cost. Let the enemy hit us at a better skill, the attacks will be on the Neophytes and they will have a baptism of fire, while the Initiates exact retribution.