[hellaandrew]

I've been reading the forums for about 2 months now, and I've been a DE player for about 6. From a few of the threads, I see words like "ghost army" and "ghost ship" being thrown around and I wonder what that means for a dark eldar army.

I tried explaining to my friend what I thought it meant, and what I interpreted it as was that since pretty much every DE player plays with their raiders empty, seeing as it is such a hassle to actually put the models onto it, we just have a bunch of empty raiders running around. The ghost ship army takes advantage of this by having maybe half of your raiders completely empty by carrying no passengers so half the time your opponent is shooting at an empty one. My friend replied, "if I ask you what is on the raider, don't you have to tell me?" and I said No, as long as I have it written down somewhere so you know I'm not cheating.

So he kinda took that answer with a grain of salt, then he said that it would be easy to pick out the raiders with expensive units on it, say, with an archon and incubi on it because during set up, and I'm deploying HQs, he would know which one they're on.

Any ideas, comments? I just want to clarify this "ghost" army stuff.

 

[Lost Nemesis]

You don't have to display models on the Raiders, nor do you have to disclose to your opponent which units are in which Raiders, so long as you have it written down clearly as you say. Is that what you're asking? There's a rule about it in the BGB.

 

[Wicky]

Hi,
And what if you deploy via the webway?
Your opponent is absoluely clueless as to who is who.

A Ghost ship Army is just empty Raiders providing interference for the troops coming uo behind them, and sometimes providing cover from being shot down and becoming a wreck.

Cheers.

 

[WraithGuardian]

Basicaly if you field a ghost army, you are relying on deception. The focus is 5 man warrior squad with a lance, on a raider(sometimes with a horrorfex) totaling to mere 105 points. You field about 6-8 of these squads and always keep them embarked. So in the end you use your cheap warrior raiders to cover the advance of raiders housing strong assault units like incubi or wyches.

If you want to keep the contents of each raider secret, before you play your oppoenent, dont tell him anything about what army you are using because some people have experience with ghost armies. This way he wont pay as much attention to which raider was deployed first and second. Also, dont put your HQ and wyches into raiders that stand out, or those that you painted and assembled very well. This way your opponent is likely to pick which ever raider looks better to shoot at, people usualy dont pay attention to the raides that look the same or are badly made. I specificaly customized by HQ and elite raiders, but during a tourney setting I never actualy put my expensive units into them.

 

[hellaandrew]

That all makes pretty much sense. I suppose the average player would be dumb enough to do as you say and not really pay attention during setup. Thanks for the clarification.

I've got another question that requires another thread, please go read it! =p

 

[Wicky]

If you want to keep the contents of each raider secret, before you play your oppoenent, dont tell him anything about what army you are using because some people have experience with ghost armies. This way he wont pay as much attention to which raider was deployed first and second. Also, dont put your HQ and wyches into raiders that stand out, or those that you painted and assembled very well. This way your opponent is likely to pick which ever raider looks better to shoot at, people usualy dont pay attention to the raides that look the same or are badly made. I specificaly customized by HQ and elite raiders, but during a tourney setting I never actualy put my expensive units into them.

But,but.............thats so sneaky!

Didn't your Mama teach you better?

 

[drunkspleen]

I don't understand how you would hide each raider's contents but have it marked down seperately, do you paint a number under each base? If not, how can you proove which is which when it comes to the similar looking ones, and matching them up with what is written on your army list.

 

[Wicky]

I don't understand how you would hide each raider's contents but have it marked down seperately, do you paint a number under each base? If not, how can you proove which is which when it comes to the similar looking ones, and matching them up with what is written on your army list.

Ok, just write down on your roster, seperate piece of paper or whatever something like this and turn it face down near the table top -

Wyches 9
Succubus 1
Raider armed with Dark Lance (with red stripes.)

Your opponent can ask to see that particular entry when he questions what the red stripe Raider actually has on board. Its not that you could have altered that Roster because it was in plain sight for the entire game.

You should only show your opponent "proof" when its necessary as it tends to pan out that they can't help but target your best assault troops if they know beforehand where they exactly are.

Just call it the "Fog of War." And never place any descriptive model onboard, its a dead giveaway!

Alternately you can write a number on the Raider instead of using distinct color markings.

What Wraithguardian was saying before is that if you want the higest success rate with this perfectly legal system its best to keep the most plain vehicle with the nastiest troops onboard and the loudest vehicle with the worst troops so that it is the one that attracts the most attention with the least result.

I tend to have all my Raiders modelled exactly the same and just number the flying stands and match those numbers back to the Roster entry. This way their is less psycology involved but it becomes a "true" guessing game.

And its an even bigger guessing game if they have no models onboard thus becoming Ghost Ships. So instead of having one target to be shot at, the enemy how has two and he doesn't know if all the vehicles are in fact Ghost Ships or not.

Now if your confused by all this imagine what your opponent feels when facing down all of this. Its a more than even chance he won't be able to target all your units per turn and thus will allow something to slip through into combat and its here where all the sneaky tactics bear fruit.

Your opponent will argue that those Wyches were not on the Red Stripe Raider, so you calmly reveal that particular entry on your Roster that says that they indeed were and make sure to only show that one detail so that more surprises can hopefully ensue!

This is part of what being Dark Eldar are all about, we don't play fair, we gang up on opponents and we take as many prisoners as possible, mind you - its all within the rules.

Cheers.

 

[DEfan]

So, how many Raiders would you bring to the table, pre-webway, in a 1500 battle?

 

[Wicky]

So, how many Raiders would you bring to the table, pre-webway, in a 1500 battle?

Hi,
If I understand what "Pre-webway" means (before activating the portal?) I place no Raiders on the board, they are all in Reserves ready to pounce forth.

What is on the table is just enough sacrificial troops to "get the job done" - the job being to place the portal in the best possible position and then usually die just after doing so.

If this sounds a bit strange then please consider it as a gamble as to what balance you choose to have in the portal and what you have on the table.

And if I have timed it absolutely correctly, used the bare minimum of numbers and milked the most out of the movement, then straight after I activate the portal all those support troops get blown away by the enemy. This to me is the MOST successful use of the portal, to have used the minimum of troops sacrificed to get the maximum benefit from the portal position possible.

Now in reality some of the large warrior squads will have numbers left after activation as you need some form of insurance against luck, bad judgement of whatever the dice Gods can throw at you. So if you calculate that you might need a 15 man squad to run the portal up the board in order to survive the inevitable wounds, you would actually use an 18 man squad to cover contingencies.

All this is the most dangerous way to use a portal but when successful its can be devastating, and a lot of players wouldn't go this far with the gamble but to me if you were to say 2 Raiders on the table and 4 in reserves guess which targets are going to be hit? But I suppose distraction techniques are another tactic again.

Cheers.

 

[WraithGuardian]

Just to throw it out there, I really dont recommend using a WWP in an organized tournament setting. Even though you will suprise some newbies during the 1st and second round, you will give an easy 2 turn victory to some hardcore professional that happens to know how to counter a portal DE army. A risk like this shouldnt be taken in my opinion, especialy when you pay money for admission ot the event and/or fly a couple thousand miles just to participate in it.

Usualy people are better off just using their most general "everyday" list rather than come up with something new and unique that looks god on paper, yet at the same time is something they havent experimented with before.

 

[crazy_irish]

so if you play gun-boats, you do not place models on the raiders, you just shoot aout of 'em?

I guess thats the reason why i didn't win so often...

I'll have to buy more raiders(as 3 went into my battlebarge XD)

 

[dizzie]

so if you play gun-boats, you do not place models on the raiders, you just shoot aout of 'em?

I guess thats the reason why i didn't win so often...

I'll have to buy more raiders(as 3 went into my battlebarge XD)

Yes your right you don't have to show nothing as raiders move fast.
also you can set them up independantly.
example 5 warriors + lance and raider and deploy seperately, there is some dabate as to wether you have to set them up 2" away from each other, but even still its a good tactic and creates more targets for your enemy.

as was explained you don't have to tell your opponent whats on them, but when you set them up your opponent can guess whats in each due to deployment rules, setting up troops, elites and HQ's.
also if they come through a WWP as wicky explained your opponent won't know nothing to help him in the slightest to identify which raider is which.

Part of the biggest problem with DE is not knowing your army but knowing the core rules and getting your opponent to play fairly.

 

[crazy_irish]

Well i talked to my local storemanager and he sayed that he remembert an F&Q that sayed you where supposed to show whats on open topped transporters 'cause there open and you can see them, what sounds very right to me. but rulewise i did not find anything that sayed that you have to do it.

Part of the biggest problem with DE is not knowing your army but knowing the core rules and getting your opponent to play fairly

But if you try getting your opponent to play fairly, shouldn't you too play fairly?
'cause not showing your troops on an open topped vehicle and still shoot or attack from it, sounds a not fairly to me ;-)

but i guess thats just my opinion.

I guess i'll play showing my troops

thanks anyway for you opinion;-)

 

[Splata]

That FAQ i think was a set of test rules for 4th ed. (or perhaps it was 3rd. ed in general, either way the guy is wrong.

In fifth we are going to loose this though, if someone asks we have to tell them =(

 

[Wicky]

That FAQ i think was a set of test rules for 4th ed. (or perhaps it was 3rd. ed in general, either way the guy is wrong.

In fifth we are going to loose this though, if someone asks we have to tell them =(

Hi,
Are you serious about revealing what's in a transport in 5th?

Cheers.

 

[necronoob]

Hi,
Are you serious about revealing what's in a transport in 5th?

Cheers.

Not that it should matter much because I good player would know what is in each raider by when you place it on the table.

 

[Splata]

Yeah unfortunatly am Wicky.
5th is the ed. of no suprises aparently. For instance on request you must give them your list and i'm not sure if you have to point out which squad is which if asked (ie. which one has the WWP.

You can safely wager that i won't be using a WWP list, especially at the start of this edition. Just too many problems with the deployment of it.

Mind, we now get a cover save for being behind another raider, so it isn't all bad!

 

[Wicky]

So what happens when you have an IC in reserve that’s undecided about attaching or not?

Problem I see young Skywalker.

Signed, Yoda.

 

[sendaf]

I can somewhat understand the whole "no surprises" thing but i feel that some opponents would take advantage of this and games will end up taking twice as long cause after every move each player will be running to the others lists to see what the other is trying to pull.

But i disagree with showing whats in a transport,It would be to easy to lose sight of exactly one raider when their are 8 of them flying at top speed across the battlefield.

I think that each player should get a few minutes before each game to take a quick glance over each others army lists. this would resemble past reconissance of the enemys army, or just the reputation of the army you are fighting (such as during campaigns) But after the game has started, you can no longer look at your opponents list