gk tactics plz

I just played my Nids against a DH army -
It was a massacre. I play three squads of gargs, three squads of stealers, flyrant and two lictors backed up by one shooty carni and one mixed carni. My gargs and flyrant tied up his squads long enough to get my stealers into H2H and he was silly enough to leave his Dreads in charge range of terrain ( lictors ). Nids are very fast. Moving backwards and shooting is okay but if your friend plays a swarm army you will not stop them from getting into H2H if he just plays refuse flank. You would be better DSing some troops as per Seto's advice and incinerators and holocaust is quite useful. The guy76 i played against relied on moving backwards. He coulkd not killl the gargs fast enough which gave my scuttling stealers ample time to get close and personal. And Carenis when they get close are ( even the shooty one ) can do some seriouis H2H damage.

Most players think the best tactic against Nids is either 'shoot the closest' or take out the synapse. Smart Nid players will have means to get around the synapse problems ( my force does fine with just one synapse MC ) and I want my opponent to shoot at the closest squads.

Pure GK have problems - very few template weapons and no big tanks other than your LC ( if you use one). There are designed for H2H but stealers are better at that game putting you in a precarious position. You really need to assess the threats carefully and pick out your priority targets - DSing behind the stealers and shooting them down for example. A lot depends on the list your opponent plays - I play lists that are unexpected ( who plays thirty-three gargs! ). The new dex for Nids make them much more flexible and therefore its difficult to anticipate what models will be used. Good luck

I wouldn't trust my advice very much, since it has no experience backing it (using either 'Nids or GKs). But I do have both codices and can see some advantages you can find.

Holocaust does sound like a very useful ability against 'Nids for clearing swarms. Any blast that size helps more than it hurts, IMO.

I wouldn't think that psycannons would be very useful; 'Nids only have one Invulnerable save (If I read the codex right), and it is backed up by a hearty 2+ save. It is overpriced (in my opinion) in the first place (another Grey Knight would be better IMO).

The incinerator, on the other hand, might be useful for the terminators for taking out a hearty chunk of troops before you charge (or for a deep striking unit with a homer; just make sure you don't decimate every troop within 6" or things will get bad next turn). It's AP value will shred through all of the troops, elites (including warriors), and fast attack choices, even with the armor biomorph upgrades. You'll be wounding on a 2+ or 3+ (auto-hit with template weapon), which means things will burn!

Range combat; only the Warp Blast ability of Zoanthropes/Hive Tyrants can slice through Grey Knight's armor. Storm Bolters will cut through most infantry's armor. For close combat, only the really fat creatures, a massive swarm, or genestealers can really decimate Grey Knights, so pick your battles cautiously.

The tougher creatures (such as a pumped-up Carnifex or Hive Tyrant) seem like they would be easy to crack using a deep-striking (tele homer-wielding) Grand Master Hero (probably with a regiment to increase his survivability). 4+ (Tyrant) or 3+ ('Fex) to hit, 4+ to wound, and ignores armor saves. The Hero goes either first ('Fex) or at the same time (Tyrant). Then use the force weapon ability and kill the beast outright. Chances are, the hero will survive and the big bug will be decimated.

Don't forget the Orbital Strikes. It gets rid of one critical piece of cover your enemy's swarms can use to their advantage. They aren't that expensive, in my opinion.

I'd think an army of tons of Grey Knights troop squads and a deep-striking Grand Master Hero with a Termie regiment. Maybe some vehicles, but probably not (Venom Cannons can easily eat through those, since they can get multiple S10 shots on a 'Fex). That would be probably the best in my opinion, tactically.

As long as you hug cover and they do not use flesh hooks and you are not on a mission to secure table quarters you can sit back. Obviously sitting back and hugging cover works if you do not have a mission to complete ... otherwise ...

It's funny. 40k is a mission based game yet I rarely see people discussing the pros and cons of their tactics not taking missions into account. If for instance you have to get into my deployment zone to win holding back in cover is not to good. Saying Nids are simple to beat if you hold and hug cover is based on the assumption that your opponent has no means to counter that tactic. Myself I would work up table hugging cover and hiding behind my MCs. Since missions revolve around objectives or table quarters that would seem a good plan.

Nids are not easy to beat. I have both a DH force and a Nid force. My example of the massacre was me playing my Nids against my friend who is now playing my DH. Granted he is new to DH - I gave my DH to play with about a month ago - but he is not new to 40k. Nids are beatable, of course. But you need to apply some tactics to win missions. Spinkycleft who does not have any experience actually has some good advice.

Here is an example of why some tactics do not work ...

If I decide to go the Zilla list with four or five carnis marching up table with the genestealers hiding behind them will your sit back tactic work? I doubt it. Now this is a fairly common list - no gaunts no rippers just MCs and enough stealers to rip a DH army a new one. You will not have enough heavy weapons to deal with MCs before the stealers pop out and if they flesh hooks cover will not save you. You will need mobility to get behind those MCs and attack the flanks. Now i would not use this list against my friend as i want a good game but without knowing what your opponent might bring it can be very hard to beat Nids at times.

@Brother Catian-Stern: Next time just edit your previous post instead of making a new one. Also work on your grammer, it wouldn't hurt you to at least capatalize your 'i's and such.

@ Slayed Carnifex: As far as tactics, it really depends on your opponent's list and thier general play style, if they like rushing at you no matter what I'd try to hug a flank without making it too obvious, that way his army is more spread out and they might end up coming at you in waves rather than all at once. I know this could work fairly well with my GK army, as over half my troops (30 of 51) are in Fast Attack Slots, thus they get to pretty much deploy after everything else. Just drop a few hints that you plan to deploy your force differently and hope.

Against Tyranids I'm not keen on DSing as all you get is closer to the enemy, and thus get less use out of those awsome Storm Bolters and IMO you lose the chances to make back points if thats how you see a unit being sucessful. (I don't always, as a unit that act as a distraction may be wiped out early, but it could allow your other units to make back thier points and the points of the distraction and other such cases)

Mike

A 200-point suicide squad may be good against a hordey army. 5 Grey Knights (Fast Attack), equip two with Incinerators, and equip the Justicar with an incinerator from the armory and a teleporter homer. Deep strike 2" away, let 3 heavy flamers rip, and then just laugh. The nice thing about this is the Grey Knights do still have a slim chance of surviving, and this can give much needed support to anywhere on the table.

brother-captian stern said:

for example nids cant shoot you can so shoot you may not be best at it but you are better then them.

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Unfortunately, 'Nids could easily out-shoot a GK army if it was designed as such. Multiple-shot S10 weapons coming from one Carnifex, a swarm of modest firepower (which is as strong as our weapons with only 1 less shot per gun and half the range for a 1/3 of the points one of our guys costs), the Barbed Strangler (ordnance blast-size that causes pinning and can be very high strength value). I've seen a 'Nids list that destroyed Imperial Guard because they moved their army of shooty creatures backwards and shot their weapons. Now considering how shooty Imperial Guard is, that is frightening. But it was also funny to see 'Nids running from close combat with Imperial Guard.

Don't go with stereotypes. You will be surprised.