Librarium Online Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Consider this:

A GK costs 25 points and fires twice at long range, has strength 6 in close combat and always counts as charging (with two attacks) , not to speak of the other special rules.

A normal space marine fires only once at long range, has strength four and has only two attacks if he charges (three if he is an assault marine, but then, he loses the shooty capability). And he costs 15 points.

My point is, do you think that point-cost speaking, a GK is a better option than two space marines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
they do not count as charging, when they charge, they don't get the extra attack from 2 cc weapons.

only when they are charged.

I would rather field 2 marines then 1 GK.
because basic marines are tough as nails, and cheap
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Hey guys.

This is something im evaluating right now myself. I Play Ultramarines and have always found assault marines and bikes very fun to field. Now im planning to field Powerarmour GK with Teleport or Rhino instead I cant see how these models would fail to break flanks or spread death in the apponents cannon batteries. Time will tell

10 assaulting GK can do so much more damage then 16 SM holding ground fiering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
yeh only 1 tiny problem..

GREY KNIGHTS CANNOT TAKE TRANSPORTS!!!! ONLY LANDRAIDERS!!!!!!!!

so what were you saying again about gk more damage??
it isn't even a powerweapon, a marine's 3+ save wil save him about 70% of all his saves.
and grey knights have only toughness 4, so they can be killed, only you hit with s6, so what you still need to hit on a 4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Thanks for pointing that out. From now on ill check before blurting things out. Well as I have said in previous posts i just came back to the game.

No cheap transport and Deep Strike can be a pain thanks to reserve rules. Back to the drawing board then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
Ice, we hit on a 3+ (5 WS), wound on a 2+, I'd take one GK over two marines anyday, in addition to the forementioned two shots at long range, we ALWAYs get two shots at long rang, I'm biased as I started with GKs and I love them.
Now, lets add in our special rules like shrouding and aegis ;)
So very worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
lol nice, 3d6 sight required..

that abilty isn't worth a thing to my necrons,
sure that 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound is nice, but if you're dead, you can't fight..
and if you take a landraider as transport, nice coffin for your marines.
and who needs psychic powers, when you got a big gun up your arse...

GK marines are still marines, a 3+ save with T4 wil get blasted like a regular marine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Ah so you play necrons :)

and i quote....

"Oh, and necrons. The ultimate easy, broken army for newbie players. Easy to paint, easy to win with. Just a lure for the newbies out there. "

Nothing personal of course.

Not saying you are a newbie and im not.. so dont go balistic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
Necrons fall amazingly fast in CC to GKs. ;)
And if you ever want to see a true slaughter, watch a squad of GK Terms go to work on them <laughs in a evil villian like tone>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
i think that they are both good in the right circumstances. if for instance you were fighting a imperial guard armoured company the grey knights would be slaughtered as they are only toughness 4 and havea save of 3+ so it would be better to leave them at home and take some normal marines as these can also be equiped with lascannons and meltaguns and you could have a lot more of the marines but if you were fighting tyranids for instance grey knights could be deadly as they can move 6 away from oncoming enemys and pepper them with storm bolter death before charging in to finish the job. some tyranid players may say "well i've gota hive tyrant mister" but the strenght 6 attacks would do more damage than strenght 4. :a


(i am quite hurt that im cannon fodder) :angry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I´ve been rethinking the cost of the GK and well, I think their cost is not bad if fielded against units with a high toughness (4 or more) because then they maximize their strength 6. If you use a strebgth six against a target with toughness 3, it really does not matter whether you have Strength 6 or 5.

In close combat (and statistically which I think is powergaming at its best!) a GK has three times more chances to kill a Space Marine than a Space Marine trying to kill another Space Marine:

See this (GK against marine in HtH)

To hit: 66%. To Wound: 83%. Chance to pass ST: 33%.
Global probability: around 18%.

With EACH attack, a GK has a 18% chances to kill a SM.

Now, a SM against another SM:

To hit: 50%. To Wound: 50%. Chance to pass ST: 33%
Global probability: around 8%

At long range, a GK has double the chance to kill a SM than a normal SM does. Because of the Storm Bolter.

In, all, it is only in the short range where GK and SM are balanced (talking just about firepower and killing ability). Survivability is greater for a GK in close combat as they have a better WS to fend off attacks.

Still... Probably in the long run, maybe two SM are better than a single GK. But only because survivability is bigger for two guys than for just one.

There is also the problem about mobility... hmmmm.

And of course the problem with the miniatures, the GK look really cool!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,961 Posts
You're right that each GK will kill more pts of marines than a marine will kill points of other marines, however, the GK himself is more vulnerable though, as he still has only one power armour protected wound but costs more points.

Survivability is greater for a GK in close combat as they have a better WS to fend off attacks.
That's only a difference if you fight WS5 opponents, these are quite rare. Besides that, the higher number of marines still gives them an advantage in survivability.

Ranged combat with standart weapons:
16 long range rapid fire shots, 10.67 hit, 5.33 wound, 1.78kills, 44.44pts of GK dead.

20 stormbolter shots, 13.33 hits, 6.67 wounds, 2.22 kills, 33.33pts of normal marines dead.

The point cost of GK is balanced. They are good footsloggers due to their stormbolters and shrouding, and they perform good in close combat - not excellent though, but that's a general problem of most marine type models.
Personally i believe in the power of the waaagh!, therefore i usually prefer two cheap models over one expensive one.

jwu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yeah, you are right. Probably it is better to field two instead of one... but... let´s see:

In long range, we can say 16 SM vs 10 GK, the balance tips to the side of the SM (considering the SM do not move). In short range, the balance tips even more strongly to the SM in case they do not move.

Then, in close combat, look at this:

10 GK (in every single round of HtH) kill an average of 3.6 SM.

16 SM kill an average of 2.6 SM (only in the turn they charge) and then, only 1.3 in subsequent turns. And that is killing SM. Against GK, they kill only 1.8 GK in the turn they charge and 0.9 GK in other turns.

But yes, still, probably I would go the same as you and take the two Space Marines...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
lol ya thats fun lol in a take and hold mission bomb the objective! that would be funny.........

ahhh haa im winning im in the objective...

nah i put a orbital strike on it....

:lol:

to play with gks u must keep them safe...... then its worth the points.......

mmmmmmm 2 str 6 attacks

i strongly suggest a squad of termies......

mmmmmmm for 46 pts i get 3 str 6 ws 5 power weapon attacks.... :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes, GK Terminators completely outclass their SM cousins! For a mere 4 points more (usual SM termie is 42 points) you get higher WS and a superior stregth. In fact, a GK Termie squad is like an upgraded version of a SM Termie squad composed exclusively by sergeants!
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top