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KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello. I've been in 40K for about 8 years now been in and out of the hobby, but this is my first Chaos army. I've played against a fair number of Chaos lists back in 3rd ed. I have some questions for you chaos-saavy players.

First, here's what I'd like to do with this army: Its a Black legion/Chaos undevided army- with the theme being up close and personal, my CSM squads with meltaguns infiltrating with some (1 to 2 squads) Khorn Berzerkers coming up from my table edge...
eventually, I would like to fill out the list with Obliterators, raptors, more CSM squads and maybe a few preds to make my oponent think hard at where they want to send their firepower early on.
I'm a big fan of defilers, but with the whole infiltrating army deal, I think it would be suicide to field any.

I HAVE read the codex, I'm just not completely familiar with everything in it, so please don't just tell me to read the codex to know about what I'm asking, unless you can refer me to a page.

HQs: So, as I understand it, to be truely "undevided" I have to have a Lord with the mark of undevided, right? otherwise I wouldn't be able to branch out later to get obliterators and other marines and stuff that's specifically cut off from Khorn armies. Fluff and army design wise, I was going to do an undevided Sorcerer lord(maybe) with a Khorn lieutenant to run up with my berzerkers. Any suggestions as to how to kit these two out? looking for efficiency of points. I'm not too fond of Demon princes, since every single one I've ever encountered against me was a free 200+ victory points for me.

Troops: Well, I noticed that the CSM squads can get: bolter+CCW, Bolt pistol+CCW, do you have to buy true grit for them? I didn't see them in the veteran abilities section, I could just be missing it in the troops description...

This is just an idea at the begining stages in build.. if you've done an army like this and it just flopped for whatever reason, or you know that it just doesn't work, let me know .
 

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KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS!
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
uh

wow, uh.. okay.. a few posts back I found a list similar to what I'm thinking of building..
awesome.
 

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hmm

Hiya
I can't answer all of your questions but heres what i do know.

Defilers are pretty good overall ( most people love em or hate em ) I like the fire power offered by the battle cannon but am not a big fan of having to roll scatter dice.

You have the right idear when it comes to the mark of chaos. it really only becomes a issuse in theme armies.

true grit is not a normal vetran skill only those who bear the mark of nurgle have it

hope that helps :)
 

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Librarian from Hell
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Check out the article section, there are some really nice ones on what to do and what to avoid.
Avoiding mixed weapons in a squad is all in all a good thing, spec and heavy weapons that is. It's always good to have two special weapons of the same kind (like two plasmas or two meltas).
Focusing the units on a special role is also good, here the veteran skills really shines.
Avoid the idea of omnipotence among champions and ICs will also benefit you greatly.
 

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The CSM faq is invaluable to finding exactly what will and what won't take you over that 75/50 pt limit on all CSM ICs but Lords.

For efficiency among the IC choices you've given us here are a couple ideas. Take em or leave em.


Undivided Sorceror

(I'm assuming here when you mean efficient, you're going for an economy of points combined with a decent damage output.)

Lieutenant, Mark Undivided, Sorceror, Wind of Chaos, Power Weapon, Daemonic Strength, Bolt pistol, Infiltrate-121

Pros: Wind of Chaos can be a great spell, but you have to get it into position. Since you mentioned that much of you army other than the Khorne units will have infiltrate, this might be useful. Con: No invulnerable save. Kinda pricey.

Lieutenant, Mark Undivided, Sorceror, Doombolt, power weapon, ccw.-91

Pros: BS 5 18" range assault heavy bolter. Sorta cheap. Cons Won't do much.

Lieutenant, Mark Undivided, Sorceror, Gift of Chaos, Warp Focus, power weapon, bolt pistol.-106

Pros: 'Snipe' ICs and unit champs even in Hth combat. Make Chaos Spawn. Cons Can't fight enemy ICs in HtH. Have to try to arange spacing to avoid this. Probably need to buy infiltrate as well and then the model is real pricey.

If you want to get into Sorceror Lords you can cram all sorts of goodies onto your IC, but the question remains as to what exactly you wish the IC to do. I'm a big fan of Terminator Armour, but if most of your army is either infiltrating for the undivided or advancing with the ToBB, I guess its not really a decent option.

Wacky Option that I always wanted to try.

Lieutenant, Mark Undivided, Sorceor, Mass Mutation, Power weapon, bolt pistol -101

Pros: Its wacky? If you don't roll ones, you get a random set of upgrades for your squad. Whee. Cons: Need a big unit of CSMs to make this viable. Like a squad of 15-20 or so. So it would end up being pretty darn pricey. Totally random effects.

Khorne Lieutenant

(I'm assuming that as you described your Berserkers advancing on foot, that this lieutenant will be with them and the AC for the unit will already have the ToBB)

Lieutenant, Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Daemonic Strength,Mutation, Bolt pistol-101 pts.

Pros: Lots of attacks at I 5 and Str 5, getting more hits on 6s. Con: No invulnerable save, 'only' initiative 5.

Lieutenant, Mark of Khorne, Darkblade, Bolt pistol-81 pts.

Pros: Cheap. Str 6. Con: Same as above, plus not getting too many attacks.

Lieutenant, Mark of Khorne, Darkblade, Daemonic Strength, Furious Charge, Bolt pistol.-106

Pros: Can insta kill characters, Initiative 6 on charge. Con: Same as above plus only useful if you buy furious charge for a unit of berserkers, so ends up being quite pricey at the end.

Yes I am sure both you and I could build much more powerful ICs. I was just trying to see what you could get for a relatively small outlay of points.
 

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KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS!
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Grey, thats exactly the kind of info I was seeking. I don't like overpriced units, they are point sinks, and rarely work the way they were originally kitted out to do.

On another note, I just opened my box of CSMs, and to my great annoyance I found that for a box of 8 guys, I only got 4 bolt pistols and chainswords.... is this right? The entry in the codex states the standard weapons as being CCW + bolter or bolt pistol... and they only give you enough for 4 guys? even if you have two guys using special weapons of some sort, and a champ, that still leaves you one pair short, doesn't it? I'm pretty annoyed with this, since it seems GW is constantly raising prices, and going more to plastics. does anyone have any sort of suggestions on whether there is bits order available for the bolt pistol CCW without buying a whole sprue?
 

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Unfortanutely, the 4 bp and chainswords is right. The only way around it is to buy berzerkers, and then, I don't believe they have extras in the box, so it wouldn't help this squad. You have to admit though, GW is good at killing specialized out of the box squads.

As for buying a BP and chainsword, I'm not sure about that, but I like to do the conversion contests, and instead, just make a decent looking model I can use. You could get that model this way, and then have an extra to lay out a paint scheme on before messing any thing important up.
 

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KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS!
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Here's a tentative list... please make comments

I'm looking for tactical flexability with this list, I want to force my oponent to choose between the incoming doom of the 'zerkers and the infiltrating tac squads and hopefully force some tough decisions. The army is supposed to be undevided, though being led by a zerker lieutenant, as the army expands, the command will change over to a undevided sorcerer/possible demon prince sorcerer, who knows. :shifty:
This is my 1k, first attempt at a CSM army
totals
HQ: Lieutenant (attached to Troop4) 145
Mark of Khorne
Feel no pain
Rage of Khorne
Furious Charge
Spikey bits
Daemonic Strength
Axe of Khorne

Troop1 7 Chaos Space marines 193
CCW+BP
mark of Chaos undevided
infiltrate
2x meltaguns
Aspiring Champion
Mark of Chaos undevided
Powerfist
infiltrate
bolt pistol



Troop2 7 Chaos Space marines 193
CCW+BP
mark of Chaos undevided
infiltrate
2x meltaguns
Aspiring Champion
Mark of Chaos undevided
Powerfist
infiltrate
bolt pistol

Troop3 7 Chaos Space marines 193
CCW+BP
mark of Chaos undevided
infiltrate
2x plasmaguns
Aspiring Champion
Mark of Chaos undevided
Powerfist
infiltrate
bolt pistol



Troop4(or elite1) 10 Khorne Berzerkers 282
Mark of Khorne
Furious charge
Chainaxes
Aspiring Champion of Khorne
Mark of Khorne
Khornate Axe
Talisman of Burning Blood

total
1006
I'm a little over but I will fix that later, looking to see if I have the right idea.
at 1500 I'll be switching out my HQ, adding an obliterator cult(2) and adding an infiltrating Havoc, IF I have points left, I will be putting in a Pred(T.L. Lascannon/HB sponsons)
At 2K, I will be looking to put in another troops choice in(more zerkers?) and a squad of raptors.
Thanks.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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It looks good but a few things are a bit out of line. First the individual points, delete them, the Multiheaded-one may decide to eat you for breakfast if you don't. Violators of the Forum rules is his favourite;)

Lieutenant
He needs an Aura, you could drop the Rage of Khorne to free the points for this. You should also give him an extra CC-weapon or a Boltpistol for a very cheap extra attack.

THe Troops are looking good, the only thing on the Undivided bunch is that you don't have to pay for the Champ's Boltpistol, he has it in his profile.

The Khornates are also looking good, but the Chainaxe-upgrade is made for the whole squad including the champ so that's another chainaxe to buy. and the champ could also be very much in need of a Powerfist when he is forced to charge the closest enemy. The closeset enemy can be a Dread or even a Landraider. It's a very sad scenario to have your berzerkers hitting it with their axes for a whole game.

EDIT: and the berzerkers are Troops as you Lt bears the Mark of Khorne. P. 38, learn to love it.
 

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KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS!
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
thanks for the heads up on the points value.. I had read the forum rules, but I cut and pasted my list out of excel, and COMPLETELY forgot that the individual points were still on there. oops :)

hmm... I was debating on the aura, myself because the point of this guy is to intercept and kill off the enemy leader at I6, FLOODING him with attacks/wounds, since he's only a lieutenant, I was sorta not expecting him to live beyond that much longer. any time I've taken a 2W character. I guess that'll take some play testing to figure out... though getting shot at may be a problem.

So, about the chainaxes... even though the champ is going to buy a Khornate axe, you still have to buy him a chainaxe to begin with?
I know what you mean about the charging something they can't kill, hmm..... perhaps I could just buy the champ a meltabomb.... though that still leaves dreds as pesky idjiots. I'll have to mull that over, since I really like the khornate axes they're just too cool for me to pass up.
 

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Here is my army at 2000 points. My win:lose ratio is 26:1 since i started using this army. i havent changed it only added stuff.

HQ
Daemon prince
Terminator armour
Daemonic essence
Daemonic mutation
Daemonice resilience
Daemonic strength
Daemonic visage
Chainfist
Combi-melta total=185 pts


squad of 6 terminators 1 of which is a champion.

Terminator champion
Daemonic resilience
Daemonic strength
Daemonic essence
Power fist
Combi-bolter total=81 pts

5xterminators
1xReaper autocannon
1xCombi-melta
5xPower fist
total=235 pts

3xobliterators 210 pts

total=560 pts

Troops
32 troops
4 squads

squad 1
8 troops
1xheavy bolter
1xplasma gun 127 pts

squad 2
8 troops
1xheavy bolter
1xplasma gun 127 pts

squad 3
8 troops
1xautocannon
1xmelta gun 132 pts

squad 4
1xmissile launcher
1xplasma pistol 132 pts

total=548

Fast attack
squad of 9 raptors and one aspiring champion.

Aspiring champion has
daemonic strength
daemonic resilience 57 pts

Rest of squad equiped with
6 bolt pistols
6 extra close combat weapons
2x assault weapons
1xmelta gun
1xplasma gun 262 pts
toatl = 319

Heavy support
Predator
Turret mounted autocannon
lascannon side sponsors

total=125

Defiler
Twin linked lascannon
total=180 pts

Dreadnought
twin linked lascannon
havoc launcher
total=150 pts


Overall total=1999 pts

Hope this helps

what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger, just look what the warp did to us
 
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