[designer891]

I know it's in the rule book..or i think so. But I need you guys to help me since I dont have the book with me.

Here is the problem:

I play eldar and I have a wraithlord in cover, I get charged by a marine with a powerfist. Now powerfists are at I:1 but the guy says i am in cover and he has frag grenades so we both strike at I:10. This doesn't sound right, this means even after killing his marine he can then return punches and kill my lord easily...oh his marines are spacewolves so this guy has a rude # of attacks...so we just kill eachother. Like a frag gernade would even phase a wraithlord :w00t:

It just doesn't sound right a guy with a powerfist gets to strike too just cause your in cover...I think i got cheesied!

Let me know what page in the rule book this is on if I am correct and powerfists don't benefit from grenades?

Thanks guys!

 

[Daedelus]

You want page 46.

And yes, you got cheesed.

On a side note, that sounds like an exciting new reality TV show. "You Got Cheesed!"

 

[kidsyndrome]

Like a frag gernade would even phase a wraithlord...

... he should've just thrown the powerfist instead of the grenade...

 

[designer891]

Thanks guys for the quick response.

 

[Solo]

Tough luck hey... Thats a bugger. I would agree with you that a wraithlord isn't even going to notice a grenade but if it was going to be anything I suppose that should be a unit specific special rule, under the Wraithlord entry. 90 percent of troops are going to be thrown to the ground half stunned by a grenade going off. I suppose thats a moot point.
What about a Carnifex charging in with Spinebanks? (counts as frag) That makes a bit more sense - two big fellahs going at it at the same time...

 

[LordCreampuff]

I know it's in the rule book..or i think so. But I need you guys to help me since I dont have the book with me.

Here is the problem:

I play eldar and I have a wraithlord in cover, I get charged by a marine with a powerfist. Now powerfists are at I:1 but the guy says i am in cover and he has frag grenades so we both strike at I:10. This doesn't sound right, this means even after killing his marine he can then return punches and kill my lord easily...oh his marines are spacewolves so this guy has a rude # of attacks...so we just kill eachother. Like a frag gernade would even phase a wraithlord :w00t:

It just doesn't sound right a guy with a powerfist gets to strike too just cause your in cover...I think i got cheesied!

Let me know what page in the rule book this is on if I am correct and powerfists don't benefit from grenades?

Thanks guys!

Those are the rules. They may not make sense in the real world but neither does "If you pass Go, collect $200".

 

[Mikhail The Heretic]

The description for the powerfist states that it always strikes at initiative one as such that means that even with frag grenades he counts as initiative one (unless he chooses not to use the Power fist).

 

[LordCreampuff]

Hmmm, that sounds familiar now that you mention it. So, even if the unit in cover had a powerfist it would still strike last? I like that since both my armies have no powerfists.

On the argument that a Wraithlord wouldn't notice a frag grenade there is a statement somewhere in the rules that clears this up. A frag grenade represents any number of grenades used to keep your opponents heads down during a charge. The same with sniper rounds the army will use ammunition that is specific for the type of enemy. so a frag grenage against marines might be a normal frag, against Necrons it would be more of an EMP grenade, and against Eldar it may be something else. but all of them use the same rules and are classified simply as frag grenades.

So just assume the specific frag grenade had some special concussion and/or flash that causes confusion in a Wraithlord.

 

[designer891]

I doubt it since the wraithlord is so big and is fearless..none the less not a living thing.

But hey as long as it doesn't work for powerfists...seems like that rule can be abused if u charge into cover all the time with fists.

 

[kidsyndrome]

I doubt it since the wraithlord is so big and is fearless..none the less not a living thing.

Maybe Eldar are afraid of earth spiders, and the Imperial Guard used grenades full of spiders? :tongue:

 

[Ebon Hand]

Also remember that in order for the Wraithlord(or any monstrous creature) to get bonuses for cover, the cover has to be big enough(size 2 or 3 if I remember correctly). You could say that hitting it with the frags cause it to stagger slightly and let the troops close a little better, or the smoke and dirt from the blast obscure its view, but it works on Wraithlords and thats that. As has been said, it doesn't work for powerfists since they always strike at initiave 1.

 

[tarzen]

Also remember that in order for the Wraithlord(or any monstrous creature) to get bonuses for cover, the cover has to be big enough(size 2 or 3 if I remember correctly). You could say that hitting it with the frags cause it to stagger slightly and let the troops close a little better, or the smoke and dirt from the blast obscure its view, but it works on Wraithlords and thats that. As has been said, it doesn't work for powerfists since they always strike at initiave 1.

Not quite right here. a wraithlord in size 2 terrain is still in cover and gets the benes, p 25. But if he's in size 1 AT then he does not count as in cover.

As to the frag fluff, you're talking about a multi ton 15 foot tall skeleton, a little unexpected precussion would certainly through it off balance. Or if it just reminds the wraithlord of how his corporeal body died the first time, and makes him hesitate.

As to who goes first, again, if you play that the dread has DCCW's, then the dread should have gone first at init 10 along with all normal attacks using frag grenades, followed by all init 1 attacks (namely powerfists). But, it could be argued that the wraithlords has powerfists (as per the bgb), so you would both attack at the same time.

Both are rules, and both have merit. I'd discuss the WL DCCW/PF thing before the game starts.

 

[Ebon Hand]

:yes: That is what I said. Size 2 and size 3.

Dreadnought close combat weapons don't strike at initiative 1, they strike at normal initiative and in cover that would be 10. Fists would then go next, as you said.

 

[tarzen]

:yes: That is what I said. Size 2 and size 3.

Dreadnought close combat weapons don't strike at initiative 1, they strike at normal initiative and in cover that would be 10. Fists would then go next, as you said.

Yeah, don't know how I missed that, sorry.

And all the dreads in my comments should have been WLs, sorry for the mix up-too little sleep as of late.

 

[Sabe]

The grenade was obviously thrown at the wraithlords sensor arrays thus blinding it temporarily. Also as tarzen mentioned the wraithlord is still possesed by a eldar spirit that ahd a normal body in life. Thus its reactions to things like incoming fire, grenades in the face, etc. would at least be similar to its reactions in life.

 

[designer891]

Honestly guys I think its great u guys are getting into the fluff of wraithlords with frags (targeting arrays being effected, having some reactions left over from being living). I just wanted to know if powerfists worked with frags, I am not arguing that frags should do nothing vs a wraithlord.

Thanks again guys for the answer.

Those space wolves seem to be tough, but now that I can't get abused by that made up rule I am sure I wont lose again. Seems like the guy had like 10 powerfists in his 1000pt army.

By the way when someone takes a special character of the space wolves..some guy with an insane # of attacks always hits on 3s falls forward has a 2+/4+ save 3 wounds...logan or something, don't they have to ask permission? Maybe I am wrong and it's only for the eldar heros.

 

[Daedelus]

By the way when someone takes a special character of the space wolves..some guy with an insane # of attacks always hits on 3s falls forward has a 2+/4+ save 3 wounds...logan or something, don't they have to ask permission? Maybe I am wrong and it's only for the eldar heros.

Some characters can be used without permission, namly the ones from the newer codexes, but logan dose come from a codex where the use of characters must be aggreed upon by both players.

 

[Sabe]

By the way when someone takes a special character of the space wolves..some guy with an insane # of attacks always hits on 3s falls forward has a 2+/4+ save 3 wounds...logan or something, don't they have to ask permission? Maybe I am wrong and it's only for the eldar heros.

Those stats can actually be achieved on a normal wolflord, but he may be using a special char. Also there is no model in a spacewolf army(special or not) that "falls forward"(i'm assuming this means they fall back towards you), that is a BT thing.

Those space wolves seem to be tough, but now that I can't get abused by that made up rule I am sure I wont lose again. Seems like the guy had like 10 powerfists in his 1000pt army.

Sad thing is that if he's using a fair amount of blood claws or even wolfguard then this is actually quite possible.

 

[DragonGuard]

I lost my rulebook months, maybe as much as a year ago. But I know the rules well, and I am quite sure that the power fist should have attacked last despite the frag grenades. If he had a retinue or something, also with frag grenades, then they could attack simultaneously, but power fists? No.

 

[Ebon Hand]

This isn't official or anything, but what I go by when it comes to permission characters from the old codexes is that if anyone takes a non-permission character from a codex, they are agreeing to the use of special characters by taking one, even if it doesn't require permission.

So if he's tearing you up with Logan Grimnar, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to call Jain Zar or Asurmen to join the party.8)