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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do people ever use gretchin mobs in their armies particularly in 1000 or 500 point games where having more models is a good thing.

I realise their weapon blasta is rubbish, but does have a huge mob of the things make up for that?

What ways have people used Gretchin mobs to their full capabilities (if any) and whats the cheapest way to build a huge mob of the things?
 

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I only play Eldar right now but one of my main enemies is an Ork player. I have never seen him play without grots. And even though their guns are rubish, their ability to aim means that they shoot down more Eldar then their Ork friends.
 

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In a small game I feel grots are almost a must just to get the body count up higher. Especially in a small 500 point game, I like to throw in some grots, a decent amount of footsloggers and call it a day. However in larger games I much prefer to have greater numbers of orks as they are fundamentally more slid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok so they certanly have a use for their higher BS. Now how do you collect a big mob of them. The current blisters are too expensive for a measly about of grots.....what about the snotlings from the Fantasy game?
 

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If you are going to use fantasy modles I would suggest mixing common goblins with the Oger Kimndom's goblinars. Though finding that many guns will be a bit of a pain.
 

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Not anymore

Grotts used to be able to outshoot boyz, but that was before shoota boyz became 6 points a piece. Shoota boyz have 2 shots, regardless if they move or not. Gretchin get 1, and their range is 6in shorter.

A shoota boy has a 2/3 chance of getting a hit, and against MEQs, a 1/3 chance of getting a wound, and a 1/9 chance of getting a kill. That means, if you have a squad of 18 shoota boyz, you would get 2 kills.

Grotts, if they're even in range have a 1/2 chance of getting a hit, a 1/6 chance of getting a wound, and a 1/18 chance of getting a kill. If you have a squad of 27 grotts (counting the 2 mandatory runtherds, this is an equivalent amount of points to the shoota boyz) you get 1.5 kills.

To make it worse, the Grotts have worse range on their guns, don't gain the fearlessness bonuses to leadership (although you can sacrifice guys for re-rolls to leadership checks), and don't get the waugggghhhh bonus to movement. They're inferior to shoota boyz in every way.

What's the point then? If you're playing an 'elite' or 'fast attack' heavy army, they're a way to fill a troop slot for 40 points. Also, the main purpose of grotts is to stand in front, to absorb the first wave of hits from the enemy. This is especially effective against other assault armies, who will hit the grotts first, slaughter them, but allow the boyz behind them (hopefully at least 7in behind) to counter-assault the following turn.

The runtherd can help in CC, but grotts in CC are dead anyway, so I'd take 1 runtherd and 16 grotts for 58 points. That way, you've got a completely disposable front line troop, in case you're fighting another assault army, or just to shield you for the first turn, if you're playing against a long range shooty army.

Just don't them to actually gun anything down. That's what shoota boyz are for.
 

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There are some interesting rumors to consider. Mainly with the new rules there is a rumor that models now block LOS to other models. At that point grot mobs basically will be used to block orks for getting shot. That really is your only use for them, other than claiming a table quarter really cheaply, or adding numbers to an assault.

Me personally, right now I see then as useless. I dont' care they are BS 3, it doesn't help with a 12 inch gun that will probably wound at 5's on best. I'd much prefer the regular boys for the cost, and have no problem using a squad of 10 boys to hold a table quarter instead of grots. Under current rules you can priority to shoot past them, if this changes where they block LOS, then they could become very viable ... especially deploying 2 x 30 grot squads in a straight line across your entire deployment zone.
 

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A shoota boy has a 2/3 chance of getting a hit, and against MEQs, a 1/3 chance of getting a wound, and a 1/9 chance of getting a kill. That means, if you have a squad of 18 shoota boyz, you would get 2 kills.
2/3 chance of getting a hit and 1/3 chance of getting a wound? Shoota boyz hit on 5's and 6's for a 1/3 chance to hit and their gun has toughness equal to a MEQ for a 1/2 chance to wound. (1/6 when combined with the to hit fraction.) Your right, that it takes 18 shoota boyz to take out two marines, but those chances two hit and wound were off.
 

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2 shots

2/3 chance of getting a hit and 1/3 chance of getting a wound? Shoota boyz hit on 5's and 6's for a 1/3 chance to hit and their gun has toughness equal to a MEQ for a 1/2 chance to wound. (1/6 when combined with the to hit fraction.) Your right, that it takes 18 shoota boyz to take out two marines, but those chances two hit and wound were off.
You're forgetting that shoota boyz get 2 shots, not 1. They have a 1/3 chance of hitting, but two shots doubles those odds to 2/3. Grotts only have one shot, so they have a 1/2 chance of hitting.
 

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You're forgetting that shoota boyz get 2 shots, not 1. They have a 1/3 chance of hitting, but two shots doubles those odds to 2/3.
Right forgot about the two shots at all times for some reason; but its only ever going to be 2/3 to hit with one shot, its even harder to hit with both (1/9 I believe.)
 

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Uh...

Right forgot about the two shots at all times for some reason; but its only ever going to be 2/3 to hit with one shot, its even harder to hit with both (1/9 I believe.)
Yes, hitting with both is difficult, but hitting with at least one is more likely than a grott hitting with his one and only shot. That's all I'm saying.

The math after that is assuming the shoota has a 2 in 3 chance of getting at least a single hit. Since he has a 1 in 2 chance of inflicting a wound, that makes it a 1 in 3 chance of inflicting a wound. Since a MEQ has a 3+ armor save, any wound taken only has a 1 in 3 chance of killing them, making the final result a 1 in 9 chance of inflicting a wound.

A grott has a 1 in 2 chance of hitting, a 1 in 3 chance in wounding, and the same 1 in 3 chance of getting a kill, making their final result 1 in 18.

Now, I know what you're probably thinking. The grott costs half as much, and has half the chance of inflicting a wound. Does that make them equal?

You have to remember than grotts get no fearlessness, are worse in CC, have shorter range, don't get the wauuggghhh extra movement, have no chance of hitting with more than a single shot each, and require at least one runtherd for 10 more points, that does nothing except give a leadership re-roll in exchange for killing 1-3 grotts (a really high cost), and do a little bit of damage in CC, where the grotts are doomed anyway.
 

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Now, I know what you're probably thinking.
Actually, I was wondering what someone on LO was going to assume I was thinking.:p

I personally like sticking a full mob of grots with a warphead, the results in the game are usually funny and the grots soak up enough of the warpheads self inflicting damage to help him out. (In two games the mob he was with managed to make it to the enemy, in which the warphead got a nifty power and joined a group of boyz just before assaulting.)
 

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You got me

Actually, I was wondering what someone on LO was going to assume I was thinking.:p
Ha! You got me. :rofl I've got to learn to stop writing as if I'm making a speech/sales pitch.


I personally like sticking a full mob of grots with a warphead, the results in the game are usually funny and the grots soak up enough of the warpheads self inflicting damage to help him out. (In two games the mob he was with managed to make it to the enemy, in which the warphead got a nifty power and joined a group of boyz just before assaulting.)
Now that's a neat idea. It'd also be interesting to stick the Mad doc with a team of grotts, and force your opponent to decide between aiming his attacks at your various teams of boyz, or the fearless, feel-no-pain grott swarm.
 

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Actually, I was wondering what someone on LO was going to assume I was thinking.:p

I personally like sticking a full mob of grots with a warphead, the results in the game are usually funny and the grots soak up enough of the warpheads self inflicting damage to help him out. (In two games the mob he was with managed to make it to the enemy, in which the warphead got a nifty power and joined a group of boyz just before assaulting.)
You do realize he is making his psychic tests on LD7 in a grot mob???
 

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You do realize he is making his psychic tests on LD7 in a grot mob???
I never said it was a very smart idea, just that I like to watch the results of having him in there...:C
 

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You all seems to forget you get 2 grots for a single ork. So you get the same amount of shots. The problem is the range. But with something like 30 grots, they will become a real annoyance to any player (target priority, contesting table quaters). And also, they are great for the fluff !
 

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And...

You all seems to forget you get 2 grots for a single ork. So you get the same amount of shots. The problem is the range. But with something like 30 grots, they will become a real annoyance to any player (target priority, contesting table quaters). And also, they are great for the fluff !
Two grotts don't exactly add up to one ork.

Grotts have a lower strength (both in CC and with their weapon), no armor penetration, no fearlessness (so they'll be running fairly soon), no bonus movement from waugggghhh, potentially useless mandatory runtherd leaders, a lower WS, no ability to deal with high toughness enemies, AND lower range.

I'd even go as far as saying three grotts don't add up to a single ork, and I'm not even completely sure if four do, either.

This isn't to say that grotts are useless with the new codex, but they can't take the place of boyz, no matter how many you field.
 
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