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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey,
I am thinking of maybe doing a Guard army, and firstly i really like the look of Tallarn stuff....especially the FW models, so want to do at least one Tallarn Platoon....
But my first problem is, how would you make a Tallarn comand squad?
So i thought, to make it seem more plausable, i would have to use Cadians (i don't like Catachans...) leading/fighting with the Tallarn, and maybe make them a bit more desertish....
But i want to do a compeitive Guard list, so i thought Mech.... the Tallarn don't have to be part of the competitive list, i'm not sure if they would really be worth it, as far as i know, competitive Guard would be more Mech, so i wouldn't have loads of pionts to spend on troops....
Any advie,
Either on Tallarn
or competitive Guard would be really great, Thanks :D
 

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3 Getrudes
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But my first problem is, how would you make a Tallarn comand squad?
Have a look here:

Games Workshop

Lots and lots of Tallarn models there. Their Heavy weapon carriages are awesome too :D

Guard are a cracking competetive army. There are a million and one ways to make a competetive Guard army. It's why the Codex is ossom, but the specific build is very much down to personal preference; I'd suggest something but it'd probably be easier if you give up some specifics; what models do you like, what armies have you played before, do you want GT competetive or local event competetive or friendly game competetive, yadda yadda. As far as meching up goes you need to be bringing infantry along before you can bring any real number of tanks, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. You could quite easily make a competetive Guard army with Tallarns if you wanted, but considering they're all metal models that'd get quite expensive quite quickly. One Platoon or a couple of Veteran Squads would add a bit of flavour; the Platoon being your best bet considering Captain Al'Rahem is great :D
 

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GWS do some tallarn mdoels on there website. have a check int he collectors area in the guard section of the website. Guard in my opinion are one of the msot if not the most competitive army out their right now from what i have seen. the reason that they aren't winning the GT is two reasons.
The list hasn't been entered into the tournament because everyones ideas are valkyrie spam, russ spam and other mech ideas etc
or someone has the list ( me :p, i hope! ) and can't make the tourney,
actually theirs a third. the player has not been revealed along with the heat results ^^.
for competitive gaurd. you need chimeras for all PCS and CCS for mobility and protection.

From experience all the elites are huge points sinkers and aren't that competitive. the storm troops are extra fluffy veterans used for fun more than anything else. Marbo is the only exception, he is amazing, because he has a demo charge and good stats for close combat and can deepstrike with 100% accuracy.

Also i would give your PCS and CSS special weapons like metlaguns and plasma. the plasma for the CCS because they have BS4. and the PCS only have BS3. which equals more chance of plasma guns hitting.

chimeras should be tooled with multi-laser to have a fair chance of hitting vehicels, and they are better than heavy bolters with higher strenght and same shots but lower ap. also a heavy flamer for them helps beecause they will msot likely be engaging the enemy in close quarters.

sponsors on leman russes are more good, because they make a tank overexpensive and most russ variants will shoot at tanks if not then the anti-horde ( like orks and tyranids ) are better spend on flamer squads.

deathstrike missles and manticores, especially manticores will be expected to die and they are very unreliable tanks. easy to kill as well and they are poitns sinkers. a leman russ demolishers works better because he has the same killing power as a manticore but it doesn't ignore cover and it has front armour 14.

mech isn't the most competitive way to go. a mix is of mech and other builds is good.

Also if your getting veterans, then remember that the extra upgrades are usually jsut for fun and they are best in valkyire/vendenttas and chimeras to mvoe about and bust tanks ant mousntrous creatures.

also, guardsmen rely on numbers over quantity most of the time, so giving some guys liek veterans carapace armour isn't really necessary.

hope that helps!

thanks
antique_nova
 

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Torn ACL FTL
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Guard are very competitive, and not like DE "one build" competitive. No, IG have the most viable builds of any Codex I'd say (SM follows closely). Nearly anything works if you build it proppa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the quick replys :D

I really want a 'good' torney army hopefully i will go to the GT heats next year, and it would be really good if i even won a game or two, but with Chaos (which i will be selling to fund a new army) and now Space Wolves, even with good lists, i either have to poor dice rolling on saves (which won't matter that much with Guard, as they have poor saves anyway..) or i just don't think about it enough, or just can't build the right list (like i don't really like the 'best' double lash build...)
So from what Antique said (you on the Bolter Froum as well?) Balanced Gaurd is fairly good?
I wasn't thinking too much about elites, and thought as much as anything, the outflanking Guard Platoon must be good, and someone told me about a +1 to reserve roll from something? (i didn't notice it in the codex though....) I quite like the look of vendettas, 3 TL LCs, whats not to like? and personally think, 2 induvidual ones would be a really good distraction...
but whats the best kind of list then?
 

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how many points? personally i think for fast attack vendettas are all you need and for heavy support demolisher russes. having some infantry platoons as static fire support while chimeras, russes and vendettas mv
vantique_nova
 

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It's not hard to make a competitive Guard army.

start with some CCS with 4 meltas and a standard chimera,

stir in 4 chimelta vets squads, (10x Veterans, 3x Meltaguns, Chimera w/ multilaser+HF)

add in a PBS or two in chimeras for psychic lulz,

slap on some Leman Russes, (whatever kind you like best, so long as it's vanilla, Demolisher, or Eradicator)

sprinkle 2 Hydras on,

and finish with a dash of some infantry platoon and Vendettas (Valkyries if you want to scout rush)

and voila, you have a list that can beat pretty much anything.

(-edit- I forgot, toss in Marbo, he's the perfect garnish)
 

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Tallarns?!?! YES!!!

GW still sells them, though most of mine come from either years ago or the eBay draft office. Have a look at them here! My army is pretty competitive in my region, but of course I'm always working on making it better.

From a competitive standpoint, IG is tops. We won 'Ard Boyz, and routinely make the top 5 at most tourneys. Go full mech though, as static infantry sucks (trust me, I did it for years), and mech fits the Tallarn fluff much better anyhow.

Just take it slow and learn to play the IG one step at a time. Newcomers typically have a lot of problems until they adopt the IG mindset of "Numbers and Sacrifice". We're one of the few armies that actually plays like it's fluff.
 

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It's not hard to make a competitive Guard army.

start with some CCS with 4 meltas and a standard chimera,

stir in 4 chimelta vets squads, (10x Veterans, 3x Meltaguns, Chimera w/ multilaser+HF)

add in a PBS or two in chimeras for psychic lulz,

slap on some Leman Russes, (whatever kind you like best, so long as it's vanilla, Demolisher, or Eradicator)

sprinkle 2 Hydras on,

and finish with a dash of some infantry platoon and Vendettas (Valkyries if you want to scout rush)

and voila, you have a list that can beat pretty much anything.

(-edit- I forgot, toss in Marbo, he's the perfect garnish)
but if you want a GT list then think outside the box ^^.
 

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Not really antique, that list has a fair chance of winning just about any game, even if you're running it vanilla like that.

I mean, you can run Colossi/Medusa/Griffons to taste, mess with the numbers, use two PBS's or just one, there's a lot of small changes you can make.

But all the best guard armies start with the core I listed above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bathurst, if you wouldn't mind, could you do me a 1500 or 1750 list, based on your suggestions, its just without the codex, and without knowing some of the Gaurd abbreviation, i'm not that sure about some of that stuff. if you have time it would be cool (you may have one already...)
Thanks :D
 

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Oldhat posted this on the army list forums a few days ago:

Up first, my 1500pt list:

HQ:
Company Command Squad
w/ 4x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

Troops:
(10 ) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

(10 ) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser


(10 ) Veterans
w/ 3x Meltaguns
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Platoon Command Squad
w/ 4x Flamers
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser


(10 ) Infantry Squad
w/ Autocannon


(10 ) Infantry Squad
w/ Autocannon


Fast Attack:
Vendetta


Vendetta


Heavy:
Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Heavy Bolter


Leman Russ Demolisher
w/ Hull Heavy Bolter

Hydra Flak Tank
Now I personally would take hull Heavy Flamers on the Demolishers (The more of those in your army the happier you will be, trust me), and perhaps a flamer instead of an autocannon on the Infantry squads (As they will be mounting the Vendettas to make them scoring)

Lots of tweaking can be done to this to personal taste, but it's a solid all comers list at 1500, and you can try out some other things (variants of Russes, a second Hydra, maybe some Valkvets for a first turn melta charge) once you get used to the basics, which is this list. For ramping it up to 1750, the first thing I would add is a mounted psyker battle squad for super demoralizing lols, maybe even two. After that, you can do anything from Hellhounds, Banewolfs, a second Hydra, it's all playable. Stay away from any elite choice that isn't Sly Marbo, and you'll be golden.
 

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Not really antique, that list has a fair chance of winning just about any game, even if you're running it vanilla like that.

I mean, you can run Colossi/Medusa/Griffons to taste, mess with the numbers, use two PBS's or just one, there's a lot of small changes you can make.

But all the best guard armies start with the core I listed above.
most non GT games yes. and i didn;t mean that to think outside the box you need to bend or break the rules. you trying to flame or something?
thanks
antique_nova
 

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most non GT games yes. and i didn;t mean that to think outside the box you need to bend or break the rules. you trying to flame or something?
thanks
antique_nova
Just stating a truism I learned from a great art teacher I once had.

Put another way:

To think outside the box, you first need to understand the box and what it's made of. Creativity and bounds-breaking is great. But if you don't fully understand what it is you're rebelling against, your efforts will be unfocused and random.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So if i was going to go for a couple of 'large' platoons what should i include?
in heavy/special weapons terms, conscripts?
I really like the idea of Tallarn, or even Death Krops (is it Death krops?) but at least with tallarn, it seems like converting will be quite hard, as all the models are metal, and the only kit you can get fro FW is a few guns, and backpack things...
but like the Snipers, and heavy weapons teams on FW....but obviously, heavy weapons, don't really want to Outflank, only normal gaurdsmen really, but the Tallarn stuff will cost a load, as i will have to buy it direct from GW, which i don't normally do....
Does anyone know of the best Guard list at the GT's in England this year, i think there have been 2 heats now? i also heard the second heat, wasn't as good as the first....

Thanks...
 

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Its very hard to find the lists for GTs (at least in my experience)

There was no IG player in the top 10 in heat 1 (there was a report about 2nd place but from what Ive seen the guy actually changed last minute to ghaz gull and 2 or more battlewagons)

It did surprise many that only 4 guard qualified from gt heat 1 (it may only be 3 because of the mix up)

From battle reports Ive seen standard mech guard lost a fair few games. A list that may have done well is 3 vendettas and 4 valkyries, squadded as 3 vendeattas and 2 groups of two valkyries. (unfortunately I have no idea about the most important part which is the contents of them)

Auto cannons are the best weapon in platoon squads.

Lascannons have too few shots and dont help with whatever else the guard are shooting at. Heavy bolters can't instakill T3, cant destroy vehicles as well as autocannons, and are not hugely better against meq than autocannons. Mortars dont really belong in platoons, (you may aswell have a seperate heavy weapons squad rather than 1 mortar per infantry squad). I personally dont like the missile launcher, as its a 1 shot weapon and I dont rate frag rounds too highly (for that cost at least)

Grenade launcher and flamer are the only real special weapons to be considered, as snipers are almost useless, plasma and melta are far better in veteran and company command squads. Id put flamers in the Platoon command squads, and grenade launchers im not too sure about, they're cheap enough and have little enough competition to maybe be worth it.

In general I wouldnt bother with conscripts unless you have a specific plan for them.

Mechanised gaurd is the way to go to be competitive. Yes full infantry guard may also be fearsome o face but time is a limiting factor that has to be accounted for. A hybrid list can be a tough thing to pull off but can work as well.
 

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16Ogretyrant07, those are all good rules of thumb.

The problem foot lists have versus mech (which IS the metagame right now) is that a mech list has the mobility to decide where it wants to strike.

I played a games vs. a friend's Horde Orks last night. He had 150+ orks protected by a KFF, plus a battlewagon and some rocket buggies. I tabled him on turn 6. Why?

Because he had so many guys that he HAD to deploy more or less evenly across the table, and half of his units had their movement slowed by terrain. While I was full-mech with heavy flamers on almost everything. So I ran most of my tanks over to his right flank and pounded face while his left-most guys had to try and run over for support. As such, I was able to take him out piecemeal.
 

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I am really dissapointed with the lists that get top marks. it seems to me that people in the UK ( i am from UK too! ) play in the style of getting the most devasting units and combine them with other mean things. like the 2x raider list with terminators and they generally beat the hell out of other armies, because many people try to gear towards the same style and so they think that a list with elite units ( with or without elite choices ) is a balanced list.

To think outside the box, you first need to understand the box and what it's made of. Creativity and bounds-breaking is great. But if you don't fully understand what it is you're rebelling against, your efforts will be unfocused and random.

lol i know something very similar to that. next time i will need to explain myself more clearly, by what i mean ( thinking outside the box ).

Mechanised gaurd is the way to go to be competitive. Yes full infantry guard may also be fearsome o face but time is a limiting factor that has to be accounted for. A hybrid list can be a tough thing to pull off but can work as well.

Mech competitive yes.
full infantry guard, hell yea that is competitive ( but not many people can do it, due to money and copy and paste painted gaurdsmen ^^)
air cav, can be.
hybrid yes. but

this is the same for any army. a mix of each of them is the most competitive because. how can you pinpoint a specific weakness in a list if it is near perfectly balanced?

The only weakness you can pinpoint, for balanced lists, is the nature of the army. so for DE no amtter what is generally fragile units everywhere. For marines is the fact that their armies usually pack alot less bodies in etc.

hope that helps!

thanks
antique_nova
 
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