[Cpt. Jello]

I really love the Tau, there just awesome. With their battlesuits, awesome weaponry, etc. But there is one problem which keeps me from rushing out and purchasing a huge army, and that is their lack of hand to hand combat skills. I know that Tau are meant to stay back and fire away, but theres bound to be a some hand to hand somtime. I know that there's the Kroot, but I just don't like them. So how do you experienced Tau players keep from beeing massacred from say, Orks? Or Space Marines even? Thanks for replying.
-The Captain

 

[Rikimaru]

I really love the Tau, there just awesome. With their battlesuits, awesome weaponry, etc. But there is one problem which keeps me from rushing out and purchasing a huge army, and that is their lack of hand to hand combat skills. I know that Tau are meant to stay back and fire away, but theres bound to be a some hand to hand somtime. I know that there's the Kroot, but I just don't like them. So how do you experienced Tau players keep from beeing massacred from say, Orks? Or Space Marines even? Thanks for replying.
-The Captain

Mobility and tactics, Tau seem to fall into two catagories MECH AND HYBRID the mech uses DFish and Hammerheads and units with jet packs or infiltrate to avoid the enemy while picking at opponents units, they tend to play an avoidence game with victory points and objective securing being the main prioritys.

Hybrid tend to play a more varied game with a central hub of FW and Kroot and a highly mobile jetpack units (XV8's and Stealths) as distraction, harrasment units.

The worst thing you can do with Tau is stay back and shoot, it just does not work Tau are meant to be a mechanised / Mech hybrid type list and this imp guard style of play which was popular when the Tau 1st appeared is now widely regarded as the weakest play style.

The main thing is using the mobility of the Tau to constantly throw the opponent of guard, and make it hard for the enemy units to close on the more static units and when the enemy does get in CC avoiding CC rampage, this can be prevented by deployment and using untis such as Kroot to counter charge and slow assault units.

I dont know if your new to Tau, but I tend to hear the same thing from players new to Tau 'I dont like Kroot' well Kroot are quite simply one of the most usefull units in the Tau list, good shooting, good cover advantages, good counter charge unit and excellent counter infiltrating unit, so do not dismiss them unless you have used and studied their rules (check the forums for advice on how to use em).

I have rarely been masacred with Tau, even against lists like Blood Angels or World Eaters, simply because if you have the mobility and the distraction sorted you have a good chance of winning.

If your opponent is getting hit on 11 or 12 different fronts a turn (my 2000pt list is easily capable of this) its a bit hard for them to commit to one tactic or to say for instance run headlong down the field with XV8,s and HH pummeling them from the rear (sounds dodgy LOL)
So mobility and tactics rather than cheese and reliance on 3+saves and CC overkill etc.

 

[onlainari]

My stealths tend to do well in combat, because I let single models charge them, and they can beat single models (not greater daemons, but a single CSM for example). I10 is great, 2 attacks is good, S4 is good.

 

[Grim_Reper]

I allow one of my units of Fw to seat out in the front when the enemy gets close while the others drop ack about 12 inches and when that unit of fire warriors is dead all of my other units are in rapid fire range i find that this tactic even works aginst marines.

 

[numberofthebeastxxx]

I know that there's the Kroot, but I just don't like them.

Well, you could look at all the kroot mercs and decide if you like them. Check out the latest chapter approved. There are riding kroot, kroot pets, flying kroot, etc. I've even seen an entire army of kroot mercs. They're more effective than you might think.

 

[Spinkycleft]

But that merc list isn't allowed to be played with the Tau (don't ask me why, but it is written in that chapter approved codex).

 

[numberofthebeastxxx]

But that merc list isn't allowed to be played with the Tau (don't ask me why, but it is written in that chapter approved codex).

Hmmm... must have missed that. Doesn't really make sense to me... You'd think they would be the 1st army to use em'. O well...

 

[onlainari]

It makes some sense. The kroot hire themselves out as mercenaries without the tau knowing, it's a secret, they only give the tau their crappy kroot just to be allies with them.

 

[Intrepid]

Here's a cute trick involving an Ethereal:

When your firewarriors are assaulted, remove the models in base-to-base contact as casualties first. When you (inevitably) lose combat, use your Ethereal's Inspiring Presence rule to make sure your FWs FAIL their Morale check. (If they roll a success, make them reroll it and hope for a failure.) You are immune to sweeping advance because you aren't in base to base, so go ahead and roll for distance falling back...which puts your opponent squarely in rapid-fire range for your next shooting phase. It doesn't always work but you'll die anyway so take that risk!

This strategy can be augmented with bonding and photon grenades. With practice, the Tau's low leadership can be made into an asset....

How do I protect my Ethereal from close combat? I give him two shield drones and attach him to a squad of two Broadsides who also have shield drones and generators. The Ethereal's rules and leadership give me a stable firing line, four shield drones provide immunity to heavy weapons and if the enemy is about to close in, my Ethereal runs away and the enemy has to get through my heavily-armored Broadsides first...which should give my Ethereal time to hop a Devilfish. (I like to keep Pathfinders nearby.)

 

[onlainari]

The strategy is not as good as you think. The opponent just moves 3" towards the fire warriors, and now they usually can't rally because of the enemy unit within 6".

You're better off sticking the fire warriors in devilfish and using stealths so you avoid assault all together.

 

[Rikimaru]

How do I protect my Ethereal from close combat? I give him two shield drones and attach him to a squad of two Broadsides who also have shield drones and generators. The Ethereal's rules and leadership give me a stable firing line, four shield drones provide immunity to heavy weapons and if the enemy is about to close in, my Ethereal runs away and the enemy has to get through my heavily-armored Broadsides first...which should give my Ethereal time to hop a Devilfish. (I like to keep Pathfinders nearby.)

Why attach him to the BS squad at all, he's an independent character just stand him behind the BS unit and he is immune to shooting if he is not the closest unit, if you attach him to the squad he can be allocated wounds and because he does not have a save he only needs to be wounded once.
Also as Oni says the tactic you mentioned is really flawed, the best defence against CC is a unit of Kroot and sensible deployment allied with use of firepower.

 

[The Celestial]

Kroot in HtH: I tend to use my Kroot as speedbumps still. I play alot of Orks, and I'll usually inflitrate my Kroot as close to the largest concetration of Orks there are, usually the Warboss, his mob, and a grot shield, and I'll park them behind cover. This way, the Ork commander can choose either to face 15-20 rapid-firing Kroot rifles, or get charged. More often then not, I can wipe out the grot shield and tie up the mob long enough, that my FWs, stealths, and what-not have thinned out the other mobs. This tactic won't work against all armies, but it does me wonders against Orks.

FWs in HtH: Obviously, the first rule is to not get them in to HtH or even the position where they are threatened. SHOOT FIRST. Don't charge. If you're at full strength, that's 24 STR5 shots as opposed to 24 I2 attacks. If you're lucky, you can turn your attackers back. If not well....they were boned anyway. If they deployed with a 'fish, just keep it close by and when they're threatened, mount up and roll out.

 

[Neferata]

Kroot can fill the hand to hand gap quite nicely. But I personally wanted to make a pure Tau force (no mercs). The best thing you can do to add a CC punch to your army is to take Aun'Shi and give him a permanent firewarrior retinue.

I won't go into all the details on what CC bonuses the unit will get, but check out the rulebook on it and read carefully. They get A LOT of nice bonuses by being aided by Aun'Shi (the least of which is never counting as below 50% strength as long as ONE firewarrior remains in the squad).

In a recent game I played, a firewarrior squad of mine held their own in close combat against 16 hormagaunts, 8 termagants, and 2 tyranid warriors for 4 full rounds of combat. Though in the end, my command squad was destroyed, it took my opponent 2 FULL turns to do so, giving the rest of my line time to destroy and remaining ninds on the board. The firewarrior squad in CC managed to kill a handful of gaunts, and Aun'Shi himself was able to kill 12 of the 16 hormagaunts before finally falling.

By the time the nids finished off aun'shi's squad, they were the only bugs left on the board, and they were curtly cut down by a volley of pulse fire.

 

[Rikimaru]

In a recent game I played, a firewarrior squad of mine held their own in close combat against 16 hormagaunts, 8 termagants, and 2 tyranid warriors for 4 full rounds of combat. Though in the end, my command squad was destroyed, it took my opponent 2 FULL turns to do so, giving the rest of my line time to destroy and remaining ninds on the board. The firewarrior squad in CC managed to kill a handful of gaunts, and Aun'Shi himself was able to kill 12 of the 16 hormagaunts before finally falling.

By the time the nids finished off aun'shi's squad, they were the only bugs left on the board, and they were curtly cut down by a volley of pulse fire.

Just how did Aun'shi kill 12 out of 16 hormagaunts, with a full FW squad its impossible for him to get in B2B with 12 Hormies, and even if he somehow took on all the Hormies himself with the Hormies 3" attack zone all the 16 hormies would be able to hit him, thats 32 attacks minimum at STR3, WS4 and INT4 that means 16 hits minimum average and 8 wounds he only has a 4+ save so he will fail 50% on average and he only has 3 wounds.

Shi has 4 attacks hitting on 3+ and wounding on 4+ so there is no way he could kill 12 in 4 rounds of CC, this is plainly crap, he would have to hit and wound on every single attack and then the hormies would have to fail every single save.

Even if he killed 4 in the 1st round of CC (not gonna happen 99% of the time) that still leaves 24 attacks from 12 hormies.

Please tell me how you accomplished this miracle seeing as how Aun'shi loses his IC status when he joins a FW squad so his attacks contribute to the overall unit and are not seperate as per an IC in CC, this also means he does not fight his own seperate battle so you cant use the excuse he only took wounds from the Hormies in B2B as per CC with an ind character.

I would take your own advice and read the rule book for CC.

If your going to post stories at least make them realistic, also what happened to the two Warriors.

 

[Neferata]

Riki, I am deeply offended at your blatant accusations which would impune my honesty. In query to how I pulled this "miracle" off:

1st of all, Aun'Shi (when permanently attached to a firewarrior squad) does not need to be in base-to-base with his enemies. He is counted the same way as a squad sargeant and must only be within 2 inches of his enemies.

2nd, Aun'Shi has an honor blade, giving him +2 strength, and he also has an ability very similar to rending (I assume you still remember what rending does after the fiasco you were a part of on a recent thread concerning tyranids vs. tau), hence he needs a 3+ to hit and a 2+ to wound a gaunt. In addition, hormies only have a 6+ save, making it VERY easy for them to fail nearly every save.

3rd, the two tyranid warriors lived to get the crap blown out of them by pulse fire (I'm assuming you know what a pulse rifle is).

After 4 rounds, Aun'Shi killed 12 hormagaunts. That is an average of 3 per turn, which sounds highly realistic to me.

Maybe I'm not the one who has to read the rulebook after all.

Next time you decide to attack someone's honor on this board, perhaps you should do a little more research before hand. Why the admins have continued to allow you to continue like this is beyond me.

 

[The Celestial]

You're story does sound a little crazy Nefreata. I've got a hard time believing 13 Tau beating 26 tyranids in CC, special character or not. The Fire Warriors would have been ripped to shreds with the first two rounds leaving Aun'shi to face all of the nids alone.

Now, riki is full of crap more often then not but I'd like a reference to how Aun'shi doesn't have to be in BtB to attack and is counted as a squad sergeant. The codex states the only extra rules he has in Independant Character.

Also, if the warriors were wounded by pulse fire, how the hell do you consider them defeated in CC?

 

[Rikimaru]

Riki, I am deeply offended at your blatant accusations which would impune my honesty. In query to how I pulled this "miracle" off:

1st of all, Aun'Shi (when permanently attached to a firewarrior squad) does not need to be in base-to-base with his enemies. He is counted the same way as a squad sargeant and must only be within 2 inches of his enemies.

2nd, Aun'Shi has an honor blade, giving him +2 strength, and he also has an ability very similar to rending (I assume you still remember what rending does after the fiasco you were a part of on a recent thread concerning tyranids vs. tau), hence he needs a 3+ to hit and a 2+ to wound a gaunt. In addition, hormies only have a 6+ save, making it VERY easy for them to fail nearly every save.

3rd, the two tyranid warriors lived to get the crap blown out of them by pulse fire (I'm assuming you know what a pulse rifle is).

After 4 rounds, Aun'Shi killed 12 hormagaunts. That is an average of 3 per turn, which sounds highly realistic to me.

Maybe I'm not the one who has to read the rulebook after all.

Next time you decide to attack someone's honor on this board, perhaps you should do a little more research before hand. Why the admins have continued to allow you to continue like this is beyond me.

Oh give over stop overeacting, all I said was its not realistic, and when I get home I will get the rule book out as you advised and show you just why this scenario you paint does not work.

The fiasco you pointed out, well I was not wrong on that thread, I explained fully that I understand rending it was more about miscommunication than anything, I made no claims I could not back up and went into great detail explaining how rending works against skimmers.

Aun Shi and a unit of FW cannot stand up to the nids you listed, the FW wouild be shredded by the 2nd turn and then all the hormies would be hitting him+ the Tarmies and the Warriors, sorry I stand by my ascertion and if you dont like it tough.

Look at Celestial he says I am fullof crap most of the time (must agree actually) do you see me getting upset, no, get some perspective I only questioned a post I did not slander your family name or insult your mother for christ sake.

 

[Neferata]

You're story does sound a little crazy Nefreata. I've got a hard time believing 13 Tau beating 26 tyranids in CC, special character or not. The Fire Warriors would have been ripped to shreds with the first two rounds leaving Aun'shi to face all of the nids alone.

Now, riki is full of crap more often then not but I'd like a reference to how Aun'shi doesn't have to be in BtB to attack and is counted as a squad sergeant. The codex states the only extra rules he has in Independant Character.

Also, if the warriors were wounded by pulse fire, how the hell do you consider them defeated in CC?

I appologize if my original post may have seemed somewhat confusing. My firewarrior squad with aun'shi were indeed wiped out (though they were actually able to pull off a win in one round of combat).

In the codex version that I have, it says that if you nominate a firewarrior squad to permanently accompany aun'shi from the beginning of the battle, that Aun'shi loses all IC status. If mine is outdated then I am open to correction.

I admit that I assumed my firewarrior squad would only last 2 rounds of combat, but never-the-less, due to a stroke of luck, they were able to survive until the 4th round.

Not everyone may have the same results using Aun'Shi, as 40K is of course, a game of dice and chance. But more often than not, I have been VERY pleased with his results against not only nids, but Space Marines and even Daemonhunters on one occasion.

 

[The Celestial]

Yes, Aun'shi does lose his IC status, but where does it say he acts as a squad sergeant and is able to strike all models within 2 inches?

If your encounter did indeed happen as you said it, it's a force of sheer luck on your side and bad dice on the nids side.

As you said, "not everyone may have the same results using Aun'Shi, as 40K is of course, a game of dice and chance", and I'd rather base my army list on something a tad more solid then sheer luck.

 

[squall14]

i've beaten one geanstealer with four fire warriors. this has happened twice. (the geanstealer missed all it's attacks). the point is it's not unrealistic, it's just quite unlikely.