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señor brushman!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey,

My friend keeps saying that Harlequins are official therefore he can use them as a normal army. He said that you don't have to ask to beable to use them and I know he's wrong but I can't seem to proove it to him. Any help would be good.

~Ben
 

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Boiiing!
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Here is a link to GW's Harlequin "Beta" codex (Halfway down as a PDF)

http://uk.games-workshop.com/eldar/harlequins/1/

The only restriction that places on the army is that you cant use it in a Tournament unless the organiser says so. For use in normal games is does NOT say that you need opponants permission to use.

The Harlequin page itself does however say "Please remember that the rules and scenarios published here are not 'official', and may not be entirely balanced".


Note however, the GW Harlequin Codex is VERY different to the 40KOnline Harlequin Codex.
 

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Your best bet against harlequins is to run and shoot. A word of advice, pinning weapons REALLY HURT. Harlequins cannot survive at range you could easily wipe out a squad with a couple of space marine tactical squads or equivalents. Also deploy your units as far apart as possible and keep your hq costs low since most hqs are cc based and no matter what you do, harlequins are still unbeatable in CC.
 

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Sounds like he isn't using the GW produced list then, unless I missed the 'Dark Veil'. The EO list is written by a fan, the GW one by Gav Thorpe. I know which one I would, and which one I would not allow my opponent to use if I were not a harlequin player.

Templates eat them. Counter charges with Frag destroy them. Blast weapons own them. Shooting in general in large enough amounts wastes them. Harlequins should be quite beatable.

English
 

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God's nutcase
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Yeah, the dances are something introduced by EO, and are in no way official. Dark Veil in particular is broken. Yes, the official harlies are rock in CC, but they need to get there first. Plenty of time to take them and their fragile vehicles down. Your friend needs to get the proper list (the link above).
 

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señor brushman!
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, he instists on using the EO rules..infact he combines the two sets of rules. He said its perfectly legal and I can't seem to convince him otherwise. I have no time to shoot. I really have no time to do anything because he just teleports in front of me and assaults, but whatever.
 

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Well it's not really a case of whatever. He is clearly cheating. The EO list is about as official as me writing a harlie list myself hear and now: content of list -> "on a 2+ the harlequins win"

If I were to put that statement into a pretty PDF and post it would you accept it? Would anyone?? No.

Harlequins are in no way official. He gets to play you because you consent to playing the unofficial list. You have every right to say no to the game. Simply tell him that you want to see the list as one single document. If he produces the EO then say it's not GW so not good enough. When he produces the GW one you will be able to win more often than lose.

IMO this guy is doing harlequins a dis-service and that's very bad.

English
 

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Nerf Dave's avatar
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IAmAngel said:
Ughh. I think the rules are kind've unfair but he insists in using them. They're like unstopable in CC...anyway, oh well.

Ehh that sounds like something Dubya would say. Saying Harlequins are unstoppable in close combat is like saying Space marines are overpowered at riverdancing. Using the Straight GW list Harlequins are extrememly underpowered. Yes our 3 characters can be. how do i say. ungodly. The rest of the army preforms extrememly sub par. a small amount of power weapons and no save alot of dead harlies.


Even with power weapons harlies need 5's to wound toughness 4 (wich is over half the armies) wich lends itself to alot of praying to the dice god to win. The weapon wich allows us to wound with any efficiency allows armor saves. What this means is that the 3 IC need to take up the slack for the rest of the army and do your damndist to break enemy moral and get them running. and for 25 points each Harlie troupes are INCREDIBLY overpriced for what they can accomplish. its why im a firm supporter of the EO rules wich are much more fair balanced and fun. Its become the accepted list in my area (including the GW Battle bunker. The general manager is a Harlie player along with me (only one ive ever met in the tri -state area of Maryland VIrginia and West Virginia.) and he uses it now as well.
 

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señor brushman!
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ehh that sounds like something Dubya would say. Saying Harlequins are unstoppable in close combat is like saying Space marines are overpowered at riverdancing. Using the Straight GW list Harlequins are extrememly underpowered. Yes our 3 characters can be. how do i say. ungodly. The rest of the army preforms extrememly sub par. a small amount of power weapons and no save alot of dead harlies.


Even with power weapons harlies need 5's to wound toughness 4 (wich is over half the armies) wich lends itself to alot of praying to the dice god to win. The weapon wich allows us to wound with any efficiency allows armor saves. What this means is that the 3 IC need to take up the slack for the rest of the army and do your damndist to break enemy moral and get them running. and for 25 points each Harlie troupes are INCREDIBLY overpriced for what they can accomplish. its why im a firm supporter of the EO rules wich are much more fair balanced and fun. Its become the accepted list in my area (including the GW Battle bunker. The general manager is a Harlie player along with me (only one ive ever met in the tri -state area of Maryland VIrginia and West Virginia.) and he uses it now as well.
Well, his Harlequins totally destroyed my World Eaters in CC. The whole game was basically in CC because he teleported up and charged. The whole game I only killed one harlequin squad (5 Harlies) why he killed 2 berserker squads (8 each w/ AC), a Defiler, a Daemon Prince, and 4 Bikes with an AC. This was all in close combat. From my personal experience, Harlequins are not underpowered. And it's not just against me; against my friends space marines, tau, necrons, and IG he annahialates them in CC as well.

Anyway, like I said earlier I'll just refuse to play his Harlequins if I want.
 

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My advice if you are losing badly to the EO list is to insist he use the GW list. Then once you've thrashed him soundly once or twice talk about ways of adjusting harlequins to be more balanced. From the sounds of it you are losing badly to the EO list so therefore I assume in your eyes you see it as overpowered. If you take the basic list and add things on every few games you can see when things start to become balanced. Just remember that as the non-harlequin player you are in control of what rules get used, not the other way round. Personally I am pleased to get games and am greatful that my opponents allow me to use harlies with changes to the GW list.

Also remember when adding things, play as much as you can against many different races. What looks balanced against T4 sv 3+ may well be utterly overpowered against T3 sv 4/5/6+, any changes should be balanced against every army not just marines.

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Harleys get killed when you take away their independant characters. That is what they rely on like Loki said.

Also blast templates. If they are in your sight, then fire. Cover saves get neglected. I agree alot with Loki here. They are not That Overpowered. Its just the opponents fault who gets in a confused state to lose actual concentration on what they need to use to kill them.

If I saw a hundred clowns with knives dancing at me. I would be "WTF do I DO?"
 

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Nerf Dave's avatar
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EXACTLY. Harlies are very very much a Psychological(spelling) army. Take my solitare for instance. When you see a guy in a pink and purple jumpsuit charging you alone. is your first thought zomg im gonna die or is it WTF why is he pink? Even that dirupts an enemies train of though. and as JoH said. Template the crap outta them. Holo suits dont work against anything that uses a template. O hello Mr. Flamer (famous last words of a harlequin troupe).
Not to Mention after the Charge our scariest unit(Solitare). dies a horrible bloody death. He loses around half his attacks. Charge him with something a little Hardier And he will crumple. Or go the opposite route and throw number at him. Harlies CANNOT deal with large numbers. we just dont have the ability to throw out that much killing power. If you think about it Harlies Instill fear and chaos in the army. even on Tabletop. Take that away and you have some super squishy eldar.
 

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Dude, a squad of bolters will kill any harle squad. A 4+ cover save only saves 50% of the time..basic weapons will kill harles no problem and will do just as well against the most powerful Harlequin hero.

With the EO rules it will be much harder to kill them but if your plaing against GW Harles a bolter should be your best friend and you should out number a harle player at least 3/1. I play the GW harles and I can hardly beat a marine player unless it is a combat patrol game or under 1000pts, its way to hard as it was stated earlier to wound guys with T:4 in CC even with 4 attacks. Even if you have the Kiss wounding on +2 they still get those 3+ saves.

If you force him to take the GW list just take lots of bolters and heavy bolters..sure flamers are even better but you shouldn't even let them get that close.
 

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is Alpharius
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re: harlies

as I recall back in there 'offical' army list the harlies where monsters in CC and the warlocks with the old psychic rules where also monsters. Just shoot shoot shoot shoot and when your done shoot some more like someone said back there make shure your squads are far enough apart so that he can't consolidate into your other units and AVOID CC whatever you do. I haven't read the 'rules' for them now, but god the harliquens kiss back in RT days was just beyond broken and nasty. They would go through termie armour like tissuepaper. So in short shoot shoot shoot. BTW what army are you playing againsted them?
 
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