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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As title states I am having a hard time winning games with my Dark Elves. I have tried multiple lists from all cav, to cauldron to a dragon dreadlord, and dreadlord on dark peg. Teams I play are High Elves, Vampire Counts, and Lizardmen. (Mostly play lizardmen)

Wondered if there was any advice you could give me to help me win. The last list I took was:

Dreadlord on Peg - Chillblade, Cloak of Twilight, 1+ Armour
Lvl 4 - LoShadows (tried it out, did better than Dark Magic) DScroll, 4+ Ward
Master BSB on Peg - 1+, 4++, Lance

35x Corsairs in bus
(2x) 5x DRiders

20x BG - Razor Std
3x Cold One Chariots
2x Reapers

5x Warlocks

I have also tried going with a hoard of Witches with cauldron but find that 7 wide is the way to go, except that i end up losing the Death Hag and the Cauldron gets kicked out of my unit.

Hydras havent preformed, Kdyss haven't either for me.

Wondered any advice you could give.

Lizzie list:

Slaan
3 Scar Vets Kitted out on Cold Ones
30x Saurus
(4x) 10x Skinks

Steggie w/ Engine
Steggie w/ Bolt
22x Temple Guard


Thanks.
 

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Oh No! Not Him Again!
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Seems to me that you don't have enough shooting. With all of those Skinks, it's going to be hard to win the chaff war with just 10 Dark Riders and 2 Bolt Throwers. How many points do you usually play, and what Lore does your opponent use? It seems like you should be taking the combats with these Lizards, thanks to Shadows, and your Dreadlord should really just be eating the Stegs one at a time. If you're worried about the Cold One Scar Vets, maybe some executioners would be an idea, they'd also chop through the Lizard blocks without having to rely on Shadow Magic. You can also get more of them, which is always nice.

Also, it may be beneficial to note that, due to the Will of the Gods rule, you don't need the Hag to be on the Cauldron for it to join units, that is how the Bloodwrack Shrine joins units.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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I'd kick the Chariots out of the list in favor of some more shooting, or a Cauldron. You don't need the Cauldron in a unit to give bonuses - having it within 6" still gives you all of your rerolls and you can pop the Frenzy spell.
Also, remember that BlackGuard are not PhoenixGuard - they're not packing a Wardsave and they're still only T3 Sv5 Elves. You might just need more of them in that regiment to keep it from evaporating under pressure.

What's giving you a hard time from the Lizards list? High Elves are sort of our polar opposites, and while it seems that we're kitted to kill them, the fights can get pretty bloody if the HE players accepts that he played the "less violent" of the breed and kits himself for armor and defense rather than raw killing power. I don't have a whole lot of experience with VC, with or against DE, so I can't help quite as much there, except to throw some theory at you based on what my High Elves and other armies can do to beat them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks

Thanks for the comments.

We play 2400 and the lizzie guy uses Life Magic. He casts the +2 toughness and heals his steggies.

Shooting skinks is very frustrating. 90% of the time I need 7s. Only way I found to take care of them is spam small level magic missiles. (he likes to find trees and hide in them with his skinks). If you charge him you lose 2 or 3 also.

What shooting would you add though? Xbows? More Driders?

I was having problems with the steggies so I saw a post on here for that kit out on the Dreadlord so took it for the anti steg.

30+ BG? or should I switch em for a Cauldron and Witch Elves?

How about the BSB on Dark Peg? My opponents dont bring much shooting (HE runs an all mounted list w/ no shooting) so I dont worry about him being picked off. If I took it to a tournament would he be destroyed?
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Thanks for the comments.

We play 2400 and the lizzie guy uses Life Magic. He casts the +2 toughness and heals his steggies.
Yeah, that can get pretty nasty. The trick is going to be denying him the useful healing spells - let everything else through unless he throws Dwellers. I would run Shadows personally - makes Stegs and T6 Saurus easier to deal with. Let him throw Flesh to Stone and Throne if he wants, just stop Dwellers if he has it, and if he's aiming at Stegs, stop Regrowth.

Shooting skinks is very frustrating. 90% of the time I need 7s. Only way I found to take care of them is spam small level magic missiles. (he likes to find trees and hide in them with his skinks). If you charge him you lose 2 or 3 also.
Don't. They're chaff, and paying any attention to them at all is just playing right into his hand. Think of them as annoying children on a long bus ride, and just leave them alone. Those small magic missiles that he's letting through: those could be killing Saurus or Stegadons. However, if you're throwing Magic Missiles, you're probably under-estimating your own magic phase.

What shooting would you add though? Xbows? More Driders?
I'd say DRiders initially, but your list isn't that fast as it is, so you could get more raw shooting power from Shards. Up to you really. DRiders tend to be more useful in a wider range of situations though.

I was having problems with the steggies so I saw a post on here for that kit out on the Dreadlord so took it for the anti steg.
Yeah, he'll kill Stegs. He'll kill lots of stuff, but he's expensive. You could get 4 RBTs plus change for that price, and it's fewer eggs in one basket.

30+ BG? or should I switch em for a Cauldron and Witch Elves?
I don't actually like the WitchStar that much. You already said people tend to just pound your Hag, so you'll lose the massive extra number of attacks, and you could end up losing Frenzy on a bad round anyways. They don't last that long. They're super expensive, so while the hit like a ton of bricks, if anyone brings an equal points-value worth of models to put against them, they'll just evaporate on the return attacks. That's why I like Corsairs in Core more - they have some armor at least, and only 1 less attack up front (Supporting ranks only get 1 anyways - fewer points wasted on lost attacks this way as well). Black Guard with a Cauldron or with Tullaris are equally deadly, having both armor and the strength to tear apart an enemy regiment (read: they can wound Saurus on less than a 5+, and negate their armor).
So yeah, I guess 30+ Black Guard, and get rid of the Witches altogether?


How about the BSB on Dark Peg? My opponents dont bring much shooting (HE runs an all mounted list w/ no shooting) so I dont worry about him being picked off. If I took it to a tournament would he be destroyed?
Nah, you have to worry more about enemies throwing a LOT of arrows at him and just "brute-forcing" his save. The Cloak does a pretty good job of bouncing cannonballs and the like, and even putting spells on the back-burner, since some of the 2D6Hit stuff can get scary for lone characters. He's a solid build, and if he's working, keep using him. He appears in tournament lists, so I don't think you would have anything to really fear.
+1
 

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RAWR! KROXIGOR!!
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From the Lizard perspective, the chaff war is most effective when the opponent tries to win it but fails. An opponent that starts with the mindset of best avoiding the skirmishers, rather than best killing them, is normally better off (particularly because no-one wants to take fast stuff except monstrous cavalry any more). At some point before the 1st turn you have to decide if you are going to ignore/chase away the skirmishers or if you can kill them. It doesn't look like you have anything vulnerable to Lizard skirmishers except the Warlocks and Reapers so I think you could safely ignore.
 

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I run an all cav dark elf list and tbh in any dark elf list i wouldn't leave home without my 2 units of warlocks double soul blights is great. I agree about skinks just ignore them they have short range weapons, double soublight and pile your shots into the saurus this is how i defeat my wifes lizards :D then charge home with cold one knights and chariots. I thought i would get mullered with out my level 4 but actually they aren't as auto take as you would think.

Excutioners would be good against lizzies against the mounted HE you need high strength with asf intact i suggest BG with a lvl 1 dark to boost str to 5 with razor standard you are dropping there save to 5+ with a front row of 7 will be 21 attacks against their attacks you should win but you will loose men or counter with cold one cav still -3 to thier amour and if you get stuck you stay at str 4 or 5 if ya put in a dark lady:D
 
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