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Benevolent Dictator
9,222 Posts
Hi! I saw your thread in the Intro section, so I guess this answers my question about which army you play.

For starters, your army looks pretty solid, and as long as none of your friends try to push the issue, you should all have pretty fun and balanced games. Orcs are never going to be a very powerful army, no matter how hard they try. Empire can be pretty tough though, and Dwarfs can be downright awful to play against if your opponent decided to build a "gun line" army with nothing but shooting.
The guide really only exists so that people have a rough idea of how to improve their army if needed, or what to take in to tournament games.

In regards to your actual lists:

1) Shooting and Swordmaster are actually stronger in smaller games, so you've done well there, you're off to a good start.

2) You already know, but your next Noble Standard Bearer should be on foot, not mounted. He needs to stay near the majority of your troops, and most of your army is on foot. Standards die if they flee, so you don't want him in a small/cheap unit that risks losing combat. The Dragon Princes would appreciate having a character with a magical sword, a halberd or great weapon in their midst, just for extra attacks on turns when they haven't charged and aren't getting their +2S from lances, but for the cost, you're better off just switching to Silver Helms and/or getting more models into the unit.

3) in bigger games, you can put the Noble into your Swordmasters. Give him Dragon Armor, the Crown of Command, and Shield of the Merwyrm for starters. He'll make your Swordmasters Stubborn like the White Lions, and he'll have a 4+ "Ward" against almost anything that can target him in combat, and a 2+ Look Out Sir against anything outside of combat.

4) the Dragon Princes don't need the Banner of the World Dragon. They're fast enough to get in combat early and avoid most Magic Missiles. Lore of Metal is flaming, so they already have a 2+ Ward against the scariest of damage spells. If you're still worried, give them the LicheBone Pennant, because Magic Resistance stacks with the Ward they get from Dragon Armor. They'll have a 5+ against spells.
Put the Banner of the World Dragon on your White Lions or on your Swordmasters.
In earlier lists, you have the Razor Banner on the Dragon Princes. That might also be a little much, because they already get S5 on the charge for -2 Armor. Having Armor Piercing on S3 is sort of worthless. Dragon Princes should only charge the enemy if they can break them in the first round, otherwise, they'll get stuck and die.

5) If you're ever unsure of what Lore to take for a Caster, go with Lore of Shadows. Miasma is a great spell all around. Enfeebling is great for making our T3 matter less. Withering and Razor make our S3 Bows and Spears very scary to the enemy.
If you're a Level 4, Lore of Life can also be good. Lower level casters don't really get enough spells to make it useful, since you're hoping that one spell is Throne of Vines. Regrowth is very powerful for any army with high points cost models. If you raise back 6 White Lions, that's 78pts you've just gotten back into your army - that's quite a lot for a single spell. Dwellers Below is also one of the most feared spells in the game, and with Book of Hoeth, it's not hard for Elves to cast.

Other than those things, and the stuff you've already seen in the guide about unit sizes and so forth, your lists seem to be pretty regular, they'll do fine on the table.

As for answering your questions:

Your Wizard could stand with the Archers and be safely out of range, yes. Other people like to put their Wizard in the unit with the Dragon banner, because the 2+ Ward also works on Miscast damage. A final trick is to put your wizard into a unit of Shadow Warriors. You can't Scout them, but they Skirmish, so you can put them behind the lines, still get some shooting, still get a Look Out Sir, and have a lot of mobility for your wizard to go wherever you need him most.

When your Dragon Princes charge, you get full attacks for the front rank, 1 attack each for the second rank. The horses in the second row do not get to make Supporting Attacks. This is true even for Monstrous Cavalry like the Empire Demkgryphs. Models in the front of any unit get to make their full attacks, and models in the second and third rank get to make only a single Supporting Attack.

I see no reason not to upgrade your Eagles for Always Strikes First at the very least. Many people use Eagles to redirect enemy chargers or use them as sacrificial units. The way I see it, for just 35pts more, you can out a unit of Reavers on the field, and they count towards Core. If you have Eagles, they should have a job. Against Dwarfs, that job is to go after Warmachines. Against other armies, you'll use them to attack Wizards (as long as they don't have a Ward, 1-2 Eagles can kill a low-level Wizard even if he's in a unit), or you'll use them to attack small enemy units like Wolf Riders or Dire Wolves.

Hope this helps!

Benevolent Dictator
9,222 Posts
I'm not going to give up DP anyway, i think that even 5 of the with no command group can work as heavy chaff, the enemy has to take care of them or theyre going to be a real threath.
Princes don't make a particularly great hammer up the middle. They're a 1-shot, if they hit and don't kill it on the charge, they're just T3/S3 Elves and horses. In my Empire list, I use knights as a hammer because they're my best option in the role, but I have the advantage that they're cheap, Core, S4, armed with great weapons, and my most expensive melee Lord tops out at 110pts (with a horse and 2+ save included).

Princes may not be MUCH more expensive than Silver Helms, but you have to count the fact that any Silvers you take are also filling in your Core requirements. Princes are also worth less when you put them into ranks, because models in the back ranks only get 1A each. So you're paying for 2A, rolling 1A, where Silvers are paying for 1, rolling 1.

probably sending Bsb and one mage with the world dragon banner unit is the best thing to do in my case.

right now in going about 16 archers, 5 reavers and 25 Spears as core for my 2000 points army, think is not very solid (as 500 points of helms+Spears would be) but offers a variety of interesting options during the game.
You already know - the ideal for Spears would be around 30+. Reavers are doing the same thing as your Eagles, really, they're just a bit more expensive and count towards Core. I've never been a huge fan of Archers, but others swear by them.

whats the best Lore of magic for nuke? i love metal vs heavy armor, High magic soul quench can be good vs warmachines and heavy targets as well but not at turn 1 (18"range), Fire seems a little boring and empireum not so reliable
Nuke? You mean for doing a ton of damage in one hit? That's not really a great way to look for a Lore, because remember, you roll spells randomly. I'd say that the most damaging spells available to Elves are:
> Dwellers Below
> Final Transmutation (kills 1/3 of whatever it hits)
> Purple Sun of Xerxeus (another "save or die" effect, but doesn't hit whole units, and can hurt your own)
> Comet of Casandora (won't kill a whole unit, but can cripple an army by dealing reasonable damage to several units - also controls movement, to an extent)
> Anything which hits an entire unit, such as Flame Cage, or Flames of the Phoenix.

The problem is that most of those spells are tucked into Lores which don't offer many other damage options, so if you don't roll up the spell that you want, you've potentially "wasted" a caster. I really like Lore of Fire for straight damage, combined with the Ring of Fury for an extra Fireball. The free +D3 for having hit a target with Lore of Fire already, can offset the Casting Bonus of a lower-level wizard, and draw out more Dispel Dice than an opponent might expect.

when is better to take a single archmage or archmage and lvl 2 mage? that second mage could be useful as nuker while Shadow archmage do his hex/augmentation job, but he also cost around 130pnts, which is 10 SM or WL
Or about 11 Archers, or a Bolt Thrower, 2 Chariots, 3 Eagles, 5 Dragon Princes...
Plus, that second Wizard is going to chew up dice from your higher level Archmage. Especially when you have to make up that lower casting bonus. Unless you have a plan that you can use a Signature spell, I wouldn't bother with a second Mage.

vs both skaven and empire in going to play vs lot of cannons and mages.
Eww... they're going GunLine on you? I would expect that from the Dwarfs, but Empire and Skaven can play a more aggressive game. Its especially cringe-worthy when you consider that
A. it's a very boring style for both people at the table
B. it's the one playstyle that Elves can't really handle.
I wouldn't really suggest "tailoring" a list against your friends, because then you're all locked in to a sort of cycle, nobody can change their list without losing. But I would try to talk to them out of taking armies which focus so heavily on the shooting phase. If they still won't budge, then start looking for counters. All three of those armies have a lot of "move-or-shoot" choices, so taking Scouts would work really well, as would filling out much of your Core with a screen of Reavers to tie up their shooting until you can roll up with your melee units - because most gunlines (except Dwarfs) will fall apart as soon as you get into combat with them.
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