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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey fellas! I got a friendly schedualed vs my one buddy next weekend. Its for 1300pts.. its been awhile since I last saw him use this army but from what I recall has...

10x Bloodletters, 15x Plaguebearers, 6 Flamers, 10 Horrors, and Skulltaker. There could be a couple more things BUT those I know he 100% has.

I was thinking of doing this:

Avatar
Farseer w/ 3 locks

10xDire Avengers

10xBanshees

10xScorps

3xReapers

3xWalkers w/ scatter lasers and starcannon

Falchon

the rest is whatever you guys thin. Ive never battled CD before :( but I am aware of their special rules etc
 

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Welcome to LO Plucky!

Army lists go in the "Army List" subforum for the respective army. *Shoves thread in webway portal*
Thread Moved.


You need another troops choice for your army, unless you play alternate rules in friendly games. Grab some more avengers.

Mobility is a big issue for you right now as well. Being on foot means that you can't maneuver yourself to take advantage of the daemon's lack of speed after they deepstrike. Baiting them into coming close and then repositioning to take advantage of your superior range will be important in this fight. Add some waveserpents in there to grant you that advantage.

Pure scatter lasers on the war walkers seem like a better bet, pouring wounds into everything will get you further than having fewer shots with better AP, even against the plaguebearers.

Reapers are not a great unit for this fight either, their stationary nature makes them extremely vulnerable to the daemons deepstriking in and blasting/assaulting them.

I'd take scorpions over banshees, higher number of higher strength attacks, since power weapons aren't going to be terribly effective, everything has an invuln save.

Doom and guide are your best choices for the farseer, making sure shots hit and wound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ah sorry I dont know why I posted it in the main forum :(

thanks for the help. I am missing a troop unit b/c I was hoping someone would suggest a unit for me and you did :) I was thinking maybe throw in a wave serpent as well. Reapers I will get rid of. What are your thoughts on Harlequins or hawks in this fight?
 

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I don't know the Demon army very well, but here's my advice based on the few games I've played against them:

If you can take advantage of the fact that Chaos Daemons always have to deep strike you can basically run the field. I'd pick up a couple Wave Serpents when you're able since mobility is your friend.

Alzer's right about the Scatter Lasers. AP is meaningless against Demons since nearly all their units have invulnerable saves, so number of shots and strength are what you're going for. I'd also take his advice about the Banshees and Reapers.

Deploy the Farseer and his Warlocks inside the Falcon and chase them after the biggest, scariest thing your opponent drops. Make sure to use Fortune and Doom liberally. Spread out all over the field and move together when his squads are summoned in. Wipe them out as soon as possible (that's what Scorpions and Seer councils are for) and then use your massacre/consolidation/whatever moves to get into cover. If you can keep the open areas covered (a unit within striking distance) you can force your opponent to make riskier summons without icons.

Harlequins are fun, but in this battle Scorpions are going to be more reliable. Swooping Hawks might actually be a good idea. Again though, unreliable and your points are going to be better spent elsewhere. For less than either of them would cost you can put one of your Avenger Squads in a Wave Serpent or take a unit of Jetbikes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I dont have any jetbikes, but I was thinking of using the falchon, wave serpent and a fireprism. any thoughts on a Avatar and how he should be deployed? should I have any units in reserve?
 

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I dont have any jetbikes, but I was thinking of using the falchon, wave serpent and a fireprism. any thoughts on a Avatar and how he should be deployed? should I have any units in reserve?
A single Fire Prism is rarely worthwhile. They aren't all that impressive without the ability to link their fire. I'd take a second Prism in place of the Falcon. Against Daemons what you want is number of wounds, AP is irrelevant.

An Avatar might be a good idea in this case, since it can go toe-to-toe with things like a Bloodthirster (usually anyway). I would still prefer my Seer council, since I stake it against almost anything in the game. However, there's a big flaw to taking him in this case. The whole Daemon army has invulnerable saves as previously stated and won't flee. This means that the Avatar can be tied up for the entire game quite easily by most squads in the Daemon army. Personally, I wouldn't take him. You need speed and massed attacks, the Avatar has neither and your opponent can easily keep his heavy hitters away from him.

I'm going to stand by my Scorpions/Banshees/ and spread out strategy. Just cover as much area as possible and converge when your opponent's squad actually comes out. Banshees' power weapons won't make a difference but their masks will help against units like Daemonettes. Scorpions will deal a large number of wounds making your opponent more likely to fail a save.

Mount your Council in the Falcon (if you take it) and add 2 Warlocks if possible. Give them Fortune and Doom, and one of the Warlocks should have Embolden (and Enhance if you have points left over). This squad is for troubleshooting. When your opponent drops something you don't think the squads in the area can handle, rush the Council over there and take it out. Witchblades are great against Daemons since, like Scorpions, they result in a lot of wounds.

Don't bother putting anything in reserve. Your opponent will always have the advantage in this area so don't fight him for it. Your Scorpions should infiltrate, this is a good reason to take them against Daemons since you can literally deploy them anywhere. Use them to cover your opponent's most likely insertion points (open areas). Be careful though, don't simply put your Scorpions in the middle of an open field or they might get shot to pieces. Just put them within striking distance of it, no more than 12 inches from its farthest possible point. You won't be able to get this perfectly every time, but do your best to cut off your opponents summoning or make the summoning areas dangerous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok I'll scrap the Avatar. tbh I dont have a lot of variety within my army in regards to more than one unit of each type. So im thinking of doing your seer council idea (obvs) but..why only 2 warlocks if u dont mind me asking?
 

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Ok I'll scrap the Avatar. tbh I dont have a lot of variety within my army in regards to more than one unit of each type. So im thinking of doing your seer council idea (obvs) but..why only 2 warlocks if u dont mind me asking?
Because you said you only have 1 Serpent, and you'll need to put Dire Avengers in it. 5 Warlocks and 1 Seer fits into a Falcon. Besides that, in 1300 points you don't need a large council.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yea thats true. I was also thinking about throwing in a Wraithlord to stick with any foot slogging units, arm it with a couple flamers and twin linked scatter laser, if any of my weaker units get assaulted I can have the lord join in to help out.
 

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a couple destructors in your seer council could be effective

i like jet bikes, they are all about speed and mobility, and they put out lots of shots, and then slip out of assault range after the shooting phase.

when taking jet bikes take in multiples of three, always add the shurican cannon.

the only thing to worry about with the Wraithlord is wraith sight, you have to invest the extra points in a Spirit seer, and you have to keep them together, you would want the wraithlord in front too, you can shoot around it, but its toughness will probably keep it going and make a much more tempting, and resilent target than your foot slogging troops

i am still learning the basics of eldar to add variety after playing CSM. but these are things i see people talking about here.
 

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The Wraithlord has the same problems as the Avatar for his melee ability. He's not bad, it's just that the points can be better spent elsewhere. Besides that, with 2 Dire Avenger squads, a Serpent, a Falcon, a 5 Warlock/1 Farseer council and a squad of Banshees and Scorpions you'll already be hurting for points.

You can't put a Spiritseer and Wraithlord in the same unit and you can't take a Spiritseer separately, so your only option would be to keep the Seer Council close to it if you were worried about Wrathsight. Normally it isn't much of a problem, but I don't like it. You definitely can't afford to have your Farseer and his Warlocks babysitting though, they have much more important things to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The Wraithlord has the same problems as the Avatar for his melee ability. He's not bad, it's just that the points can be better spent elsewhere. Besides that, with 2 Dire Avenger squads, a Serpent, a Falcon, a 5 Warlock/1 Farseer council and a squad of Banshees and Scorpions you'll already be hurting for points.

You can't put a Spiritseer and Wraithlord in the same unit and you can't take a Spiritseer separately, so your only option would be to keep the Seer Council close to it if you were worried about Wrathsight. Normally it isn't much of a problem, but I don't like it. You definitely can't afford to have your Farseer and his Warlocks babysitting though, they have much more important things to deal with.
Ya good point about the wraithlord didnt think about it like that. I dont have 2 Dire Avenger Squads but I'll pick up another box on the weekend.

What is your take on an Autarch for this battle? //equipment etc?
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a couple destructors in your seer council could be effective
what are your opinions on some powers/equipment I could give my Warlocks to help aid my Farseer and other units?
 

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Ya good point about the wraithlord didnt think about it like that. I dont have 2 Dire Avenger Squads but I'll pick up another box on the weekend.

What is your take on an Autarch for this battle? //equipment etc?
More Dire Avengers are good, they're a great basic troop.

If you want to take an Autarch, give him mandiblasters, a scorpion chainsword and just the pistol. Put him in with your Scorpions or Banshees. Personally, I take Farseers only. If you have the points left over to buy an Autarch in 1300, upgrade your first Seer to Eldrad instead.

what are your opinions on some powers/equipment I could give my Warlocks to help aid my Farseer and other units?
I keep my Warlock's costs low(ish) by just buying Embolden and Enhance. Destructor is good to add some firepower, and since you can use it and still assault it can often be a good choice if you have the points left over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
More Dire Avengers are good, they're a great basic troop.

If you want to take an Autarch, give him mandiblasters, a scorpion chainsword and just the pistol. Put him in with your Scorpions or Banshees. Personally, I take Farseers only. If you have the points left over to buy an Autarch in 1300, upgrade your first Seer to Eldrad instead.
I was just thinking for an added punch to help those squads but ok, Seer first :)

I keep my Warlock's costs low(ish) by just buying Embolden and Enhance. Destructor is good to add some firepower, and since you can use it and still assault it can often be a good choice if you have the points left over.
Interesting, I will incorporate that in. Sorry for all the newb questions lol

I have enough points for Exarch upgrades within the Banshee, Scorpions and Avenger squads. Any suggestions? Left over points will goto Eldrad, just don't want to use it on silly gear

EDIT: Got another box of Dire Avengers so I have 20 now
 

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I was just thinking for an added punch to help those squads but ok, Seer first :)

Interesting, I will incorporate that in. Sorry for all the newb questions lol

I have enough points for Exarch upgrades within the Banshee, Scorpions and Avenger squads. Any suggestions? Left over points will goto Eldrad, just don't want to use it on silly gear

EDIT: Got another box of Dire Avengers so I have 20 now
Don't get me wrong, Autarchs are good units, but compared to a Farseer I just don't think they stack up very well. Autarchs give you a solid independent character with a lot of nice options. They can be attached to a squad of Aspect Warriors and really make a difference for that squad. On the other hand, a Farseer can alter the course of the entire battle. Fortune, Doom and Guide might not seem very flashy next to powers like Jaws of the World Wolf but those re-rolls win games.

A Seer Council with Fortune is one of the hardest to kill units in the game, sometimes called a 'tarpit' unit due to their ability to soak up wounds. They're even better on jetbikes, but that's not an easy conversion and a bit pricey in 1300 points.

Doom is a very aptly named power too, since you apply it to an enemy unit and then get to re-roll every failed wound against it it's a great way to take down, say, a unit of Plague Marines/Plague Bearers. Combined with Dire Avengers using Bladestorm it can turn your opponent's toughest unit into paste. Used in melee with Witchblades you're coming as close to guaranteeing wounds as the game will allow.

Guide, for me, is the one that gets left out since I don't like to buy more than 2 powers. That said it's still incredibly useful to be able to re-roll misses, particularly if you plan on taking a Falcon. I almost consider it mandatory if you like to field War Walkers, since missing with half your shots really hurts sometimes.

I've thought it over and Eldrad is a bit too much in 1300, don't squeeze him in unless you happen to have 100 points to spare for some reason. The biggest thing he brings to the table is re-positioning your deployed units at the start: that's not very helpful if you have to severely limit your unit choices in order to take him.

Don't worry about the questions either, I'm happy to help. Make sure your Avenger Exarchs have Bladestorm, the Scorpion needs Shadowstrike. I'd skip all the powers for the Banshee Exarch but give her an Executioner, strength 5 will certainly help.

Against Daemons, you definitely want to give your Avenger Exarch dual shuriken catapults and I'd consider giving a Scorpion's Claw to the Scorpion Exarch. Just remember that you don't have to attack with the claw, against anything without a high toughness it's probably better to use the regular Scorpion Chainsword.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Don't get me wrong, Autarchs are good units, but compared to a Farseer I just don't think they stack up very well. Autarchs give you a solid independent character with a lot of nice options. They can be attached to a squad of Aspect Warriors and really make a difference for that squad. On the other hand, a Farseer can alter the course of the entire battle. Fortune, Doom and Guide might not seem very flashy next to powers like Jaws of the World Wolf but those re-rolls win games.
This is true. They are a strong supporting unit

A Seer Council with Fortune is one of the hardest to kill units in the game, sometimes called a 'tarpit' unit due to their ability to soak up wounds. They're even better on jetbikes, but that's not an easy conversion and a bit pricey in 1300 points.

Doom is a very aptly named power too, since you apply it to an enemy unit and then get to re-roll every failed wound against it it's a great way to take down, say, a unit of Plague Marines/Plague Bearers. Combined with Dire Avengers using Bladestorm it can turn your opponent's toughest unit into paste. Used in melee with Witchblades you're coming as close to guaranteeing wounds as the game will allow.

Guide, for me, is the one that gets left out since I don't like to buy more than 2 powers. That said it's still incredibly useful to be able to re-roll misses, particularly if you plan on taking a Falcon. I almost consider it mandatory if you like to field War Walkers, since missing with half your shots really hurts sometimes.
Awesome. Yea I'm sticking to your advice and have room for all 3 so I'll take them all.

I've thought it over and Eldrad is a bit too much in 1300, don't squeeze him in unless you happen to have 100 points to spare for some reason. The biggest thing he brings to the table is re-positioning your deployed units at the start: that's not very helpful if you have to severely limit your unit choices in order to take him.
Ok sounds good.


Don't worry about the questions either, I'm happy to help. Make sure your Avenger Exarchs have Bladestorm, the Scorpion needs Shadowstrike. I'd skip all the powers for the Banshee Exarch but give her an Executioner, strength 5 will certainly help.

Against Daemons, you definitely want to give your Avenger Exarch dual shuriken catapults and I'd consider giving a Scorpion's Claw to the Scorpion Exarch. Just remember that you don't have to attack with the claw, against anything without a high toughness it's probably better to use the regular Scorpion Chainsword.
Done and Done. List is made, everything you suggested is incorporated. Thank you very much! :D I rep'd you as much as I can. Only have 1 point lol
 

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This is true. They are a strong supporting unit

Awesome. Yea I'm sticking to your advice and have room for all 3 so I'll take them all.

Ok sounds good.

Done and Done. List is made, everything you suggested is incorporated. Thank you very much! :D I rep'd you as much as I can. Only have 1 point lol
Thank you. Remember to take Spirit Stones on your Seer too, otherwise having more than 1 power isn't that helpful.

Edit: Let me know how your army does, and good luck.
 
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