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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey,

Im new to Space Marines as a player, and I have no iea where to focus my building on. Anyways, I have quickly writen out a 2k list using various units to kit out and see what you think. Please criticise and scrutinise everything as you see fit, as Im new, I only want to learn whats good, and what is bad. Cheers


HQ

Njal Stormcaller
- Runic Terminator Armour

Canis Wolfborn

ELITES

Wolf Guard x 5
- Terminator Armour
- Assault Cannon x 1
- Twin Wolf Claws x 1
- Chainfist x 1

Dreadnought
- Plasma Cannon

Wolf Scouts x 5
- Sniper Rifle x 2
- Plasma Gun

TROOPS

Blood Claws x 10
- Lukas the Trickster
- Meltagun
- Power Weapon

Grey Hunters x 5
- Meltagun
- Power Weapon

Fenrisian Wolves x 5
- Cyberwolf

FAST ATTACK

Skyclaw Assault Pack x 5
- Plasma Pistol
- Power Weapon

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator

Land Raider Crusader

Long Fangs x 5
- Squad Leader Plasma Pistol
- Heavy Bolter x 2
- Multi-Melta
- Lascannon

ADDITIONAL

Drop Pod (for Dreadnought)


Total Points used - 1999

Please let me know if this is a poor list, and help me make it a serious tough fghting force, to play with. Im willing to cut and change everything, at the moment.
 

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Wolf Scouts with sniper rifles?! Their ability to outflank on the opponents board edge makes them so much better at killing small units or tanks with melta bombs.

Why don't you equip the dreadnought with a multi-melta and then use it as a first turn tank buster?

Try less blood claws and special characters. I know its tempting to use a bunch of special characters, but you put yourself at a real disadvantage number wise. More than usual.

Also if your going to use Fenrisian wolves use them in one big unit. Less easy kill points. Plus they cant hold objectives even with Canis Wolfborn's special rule.

Grey hunters are one of the best troop choices in the game. Why not try using a bit more?

Just some suggestions. Hope your Sons of Russ are pounding the enemies of the Imperium into small squishy pancakes soon.
 

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Hey,

Im new to Space Marines as a player, and I have no iea where to focus my building on. Anyways, I have quickly writen out a 2k list using various units to kit out and see what you think. Please criticise and scrutinise everything as you see fit, as Im new, I only want to learn whats good, and what is bad. Cheers
Welcome to Space Marines, xClampy. You picked one of the most ferocious chapters among the Space Marines, but I can see you can use some pointers on your list.

Instead of disfiguring your list saying that this character is not good or that you shouldn’t play that unit, I’ll try to adjust what you already have selected, saying just that your list should be looked as a fun list due to your selection.

With that out of the way, let’s begin:

HQ

Njal Stormcaller
- Runic Terminator Armour

Canis Wolfborn
Fun to play, but he is not competitive. Njal needs to be at the front of the line for his powers to be used and his specials effects don’t possess game changing results. If you attach him to another squad, the squad is now forced to shoot and assault the same squad Njal targets.

If you like Rune Priests play a normal RP with terminator armor and attach him on a squad of Grey Hunters in power armor, just to protect him from shooting.

Canis is another fun character to play and he’s also far away from being competitive, lacking an invulnerable save. He’ll attract fire at the beginning and normally dies to anything that ignores armor saves in CC.

I’ve played both in fun games and when they work, you have a very good time looking at your opponents face, but most of the time, they don’t survive against any decent list.

ELITES

Wolf Guard x 5
- Terminator Armour
- Assault Cannon x 1
- Twin Wolf Claws x 1
- Chainfist x 1

Dreadnought
- Plasma Cannon

Wolf Scouts x 5
- Sniper Rifle x 2
- Plasma Gun
I’d assume you had planned to attach Njal to this terminator squad. That is fine, but remember my comments regarding targeting.

Why Plasma Cannon on the Dreadnought? And you want to drop pod it!
A Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer is better if you want to pop armor and/or clog fire lanes. Much better would be a Grey Hunter Squad with a meltagun and a WG with combi-melta and power fist on it! Discounting major scatters, it is very reliable and if you get charged next turn, well… That’s what Space Wolves are made for :)

The best use for scouts is to tie up enemy squads that sit on the far end of the table. Wolves scouts are unique because of their BEL rules. If you’re not using that for that purpose, then get something else in their place. Assuming I made my point, they should have BP/CC and a WG with either a PW or a PF. Don’t expect much of these guys against MEQ, but against anything else, they rock when they come from behind.

TROOPS

Blood Claws x 10
- Lukas the Trickster
- Meltagun
- Power Weapon

Grey Hunters x 5
- Meltagun
- Power Weapon

Fenrisian Wolves x 5
- Cyberwolf
For 2000 points, I’d consider using about 5 to 6 troop choices, instead of just 3.

Assuming you’re going to attach Canis to the Ferisian Wolves squad, think twice. Canis is not fearless, doesn’t have an invulnerable save and his leadership is low. Any incoming fire would kill the wolves and force a leadership check that they can easily fail and run.

Basically, you have no holding power on your troops. I suggest you rethink this configuration and find the points to have at least three full 10 men Grey Hunter squads. (You can let loose the Dreadnought and now you just added another scoring unit :) ).

Regarding Blood Claws, unless they are led by a Wolf Priest, I’d not recommend using them.
And get rid of Lukas. ‘Nough said!

FAST ATTACK

Skyclaw Assault Pack x 5
- Plasma Pistol
- Power Weapon
The same comment I’ve made regarding using Blood claws as troop choice applies to Skyclaws. They’re Claws. If you intend to use a Skyclaw unit, they need a Wolf Priest with Jump pack and numbers.

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator

Land Raider Crusader

Long Fangs x 5
- Squad Leader Plasma Pistol
- Heavy Bolter x 2
- Multi-Melta
- Lascannon
Vindicator is fine, Land Raider debatable but passable, Long Fangs is wrong. You need to focus on what your Long Fangs role would be. If they are supposed to deal with light/moderate infantry, then use 3 HB/2PC is a good configuration. If you want them to handle armor, then use 3 ML/2LC. On your current configuration, you have three different ranges. Besides that, your squad leader never fires his weapon due to Fire Control. The Plasma Pistol is a waste.

ADDITIONAL

Drop Pod (for Dreadnought)
The Drop pod is OK, but consider what I’ve said and use a full 10 men GH/WG squad instead.

I’d suggest you browse the Army List section for SW 2000 points lists and check what other players are doing. One of the best SW units, Thunderwolf Calvary, you didn’t even consider at such a large game!

If you’re really new, my real advice would be to start playing small games, 500 to 1000 points, instead of trying to go into a 2000 points game right away. I’ve seen a lot of frustrated players out there committing this mistake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wow. I guess I really havent got much of a clue as to this Army. Ill use the tips you have given me, to try and make a better list. Thnks a lot./
 

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I think you should add some thunder wolves to go with Canis Wolfborn
Canis is a cheap IC, especially in 2000 points, but again, he's not competitive. For25 points more, you get a similar Wolf Lord with 2 WC, TW mount and Belt of Russ. He potentially has less attacks because of Canis special rule, but he has now a 4+ Invulnerable save, higher leadership, higher WS and survives way more than Canis. You have the flexibility to tailor him to whatever role you want and he doesn’t even have to be that expensive, thanks to the rending he gets from TW.

The problem with using Canis in a squad is that he is an IC and as such will be singled out and get all attacks that ignore armor, while the normal attack will be directed at the rest of the quad.

I'm not against using Canis, and I've done many times. The psychological factor is amazing and I just like to watch the face of my opponents when Canis gets in CC and kills a whole squad in a single swoop. I just don’t expect Canis to do this every game.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok well I have worked on another list, and I feel that this is a much beter list than the first one. I have dropped both the characters and gone for a Wolf Lord. Anyways, here it is, please comment and criticise at will, as I jut want to have a great list.

Wolf Lord
- Thunderwolf Mount
- Frost Blade
- Belt of Russ
- Melta Bombs

Wolf Guard x 5
- Terminator Armour
- Melta Bombs

Dreadnought
- Multi-Melta

Dreadnought
- Multi-Melta

Grey Hunters x 10
- Meltagun x 2
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Standard

Grey Hunters x 10
- Meltagun x 2
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Standard

Grey Hunters x 10
- Meltagun x 2
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Standard

Thunderwolf Cavalry x 4
- Power Fist
- Mark of the Wulfen

Landspeeder x 2
- Typhoon Upgrade

Long Fangs x 5
- Power Fist
- Melta Bombs
- 2 x Heavy Bolters
- 2 x Missile Launchers

Long Fangs x 5
- Power Fist
- Melta Bombs
- 2 x Heavy Bolters
- 2 x Missile Launchers

Predator
- Heavy Bolters

Total Points - 1995 pts

Well I think this list is much better than the previous. But I hoping there is something need to work on. Whatcha reckon guys?
 

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I think its great. Looks almost like my 2000 point list. Except without the Thunderwolf Calvary. I never liked proxing models, but if there's a good enough look-alike I'd be happy to include them in my list. Might want to think about turning the Predator into a anti-tank weapon though, with lascannons all around. You could also give the terminators some multi-meltas instead of melta bombs. If I'm correct the multi-meltas would also cost less points, some points to put into some other things like upgrading the landspeeders. I could be wrong though, I don't have the codex with me.
 

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Much better, much better…..

But, as you already said, there is room for adjustments, still…

Wolf Lord
- Thunderwolf Mount
- Frost Blade
- Belt of Russ
- Melta Bombs
Good.
However, I can’t see the use for the melta bombs. Its only use would be against Land Raiders, which you shouldn’t be charging it anyways. Against any other AV, you’ll use your regular attacks, instead of the single bomb attack.

Wolf Guard x 5
- Terminator Armour
- Melta Bombs
These need serious work, along with you Grey Hunters squads. I’ll address both issues here.

One of the biggest mistakes people make while writing SW lists is thinking like Space Marines. SW really don’t need terminators, but if you really want to use them, they will need to be tweaked to benefit for the rules restrictions.

Your GH squads have no WG with a power fist assigned to them. Guard this well: You need a power fist in each squad. It is that simple and I won’t get into a lengthy discussion why.

So, you need at least the same number of WG with Power Fist as you have GH squads. My WG have Power Fist and Storm Bolter.

If you want to use WG terminators, at least one have to be upgraded with a Storm Shield to increase the chance to survive the eventual low AP shot. I’d suggest 3 with normal SB/PW, one with TH/SS and one with a Chainfist. Either a cyclone ML or an assault cannon should be placed on one of the PW terminators. They are expensive, and that’s why you don’t see SW players using them.

Dreadnought
- Multi-Melta

Dreadnought
- Multi-Melta
With no drop pod, these are much better off with an assault cannon instead of MM, but they are still OK.

Grey Hunters x 10
- Meltagun x 2
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Standard

Grey Hunters x 10
- Meltagun x 2
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Standard

Grey Hunters x 10
- Meltagun x 2
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Standard
My normal configuration is:
GH (9)
+ Meltagun
+ MotW
+ WS
+ Rhino
Then one WG with PF/SB joins the squad. All my GH squads are in transports.

If you want to hunt armor, I’d suggest arming your WG with PF and combi-melta and placing them in a drop pod.

Thunderwolf Cavalry x 4
- Power Fist
- Mark of the Wulfen
I love these guys! They are simply the best SW unit.
Your configuration though needs some adjustments. There is no reason to give MotW on a TWC. They already have a very high number of attacks, and they also rend. I also suggest at least on with SS and another with TH. That sounds very strange, but allows you to play wound allocation, most times saving a model with a wound already.

Landspeeder x 2
- Typhoon Upgrade
I like speeders a lot, but I have multi-melta on mine. They are my AV hunters and rare is the game that they get just their points back. ML are ok, but with their high mobility, they are much more efficient with MM than with ML.

Long Fangs x 5
- Power Fist
- Melta Bombs
- 2 x Heavy Bolters
- 2 x Missile Launchers

Long Fangs x 5
- Power Fist
- Melta Bombs
- 2 x Heavy Bolters
- 2 x Missile Launchers
I still don’t like them. I don’t see a reason to play HB on Long Fangs. ML can deal with hordes better and GH should be engaging them with bolter shots up close and personal. You need LasCannons against either armor of elite infantry. A single squad with 3 ML/2 LC will do it.

The power fist and melta bombs are totally out of place here. If your Long Fangs are getting assaulted, you either need to work your deployment better or provide proper support for them. That’s another reason you need your GH in Rhinos. Mobility is everything in the battle field. But if you fear this situation, then add a WG with a power fist to the squad. You may even thing about adding a WG terminator with a cyclone ML. This way you add two more ML shots and still have the PF protection.

Predator
- Heavy Bolters
Nope… No reason to use a predator. If you want a tank in 2000 points, use a vindicator. Otherwise save the points for your transports.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok I think I have it now, Ill get another list written out ready for tonight. I would like to start getting the stuff tomorrow.
 

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Your GH squads have no WG with a power fist assigned to them. Guard this well: You need a power fist in each squad. It is that simple and I won’t get into a lengthy discussion why.

False. You do not need a powerfist. It is a personal choice and I have been a strong supporter for the Anti-Power Fist Movement since the new dex came out. I have also recently joined the I never use Wolf Guard (Ironic, I know...) anymore club. My list does perfectly fine without them, and they should not be a staple in every Grey Hunter squad. A Grey Hunter with a Power Weapon does just fine.

On a side note, assuming you charge into combat, you can fire both your melta gun shots and more than likely get a kill. I know this doesn't count towards resolution, but I seem to never have a problem with my enemy killing more of me than I him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Right, feast your eyes on this list, lads....

Wolf Lord
- Thunderwolf Mount
- Belt of Russ
- Storm Bolter
- Power Weapon

Rune Priest
- Stormbolter

Dreadnought
- Multi Melta
- Drop Pod

Dreadnought
- Multi Melta
- Drop Pod

Wolf Guard x 4
- Power Fists
- Storm Bolters

Grey Hunters x 9
- Meltagun
- Wolf Standard
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Rhino

Grey Hunters x 9
- Meltagun
- Wolf Standard
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Rhino

Grey Hunters x 9
- Meltagun
- Wolf Standard
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Rhino

Grey Hunters x 9
- Meltagun
- Wolf Standard
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Rhino

Thunderwolf Cavalry x 4

Long Fangs x 5
- Missile Launcher x 3
- Lascannon x 2

Landspeeder x 2
- Multimeltas

Total Points - 2000 bang on!

This list took me a while, and I feel its the best list I have ever written. The Dreads in Drop Pods will help tie up the oppositon while my rhinos move in. I will put my WL with the TWC, and the RP with the LF. Thw WG each will join a GH squad.

Whatcha think chaps?
 

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False. You do not need a powerfist. It is a personal choice and I have been a strong supporter for the Anti-Power Fist Movement since the new dex came out. I have also recently joined the I never use Wolf Guard (Ironic, I know...) anymore club. My list does perfectly fine without them, and they should not be a staple in every Grey Hunter squad. A Grey Hunter with a Power Weapon does just fine.

On a side note, assuming you charge into combat, you can fire both your melta gun shots and more than likely get a kill. I know this doesn't count towards resolution, but I seem to never have a problem with my enemy killing more of me than I him.
Without getting into a heated debate, you're right. It is a personal choice. Always.

But I think you're just limiting your options by not having a power fist WG on with your GH. I'm wondering how your GH will handle T6 MC or, in a extreme scenario, an Ironclad Dreadnoght, that charged your squad.
 

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I also agree. I always take a power fist in each of my squads. In most scenarios, if your going first, it's either because your assaulting something easy to kill, like tau, or your assaulting a monstrous creature/ super tough opponent. In this case a power fist could make a big difference, except against tau.

The other scenario is your going last/ at the same time. In this case the initiative reduction won't matter, so why not have a power fist?

Anyways, GH are the core of your army. Shouldn't they be as good as you can make them?
 

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How do I deal with an Iron Clad that charges me? I have never had one charge me, I blow them up with the two melta guns in each of my Grey Hunters squads nice and early. As for monsterous creatures, they get the same treatment. Melta guns from 4 differant Grey Hunter squads, then charged by 1 or two dreadnoughts.

I just have a different play style than most other space wolf player apparently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Any opinions on my list guys?
 

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Much, much better.

In the previous list, your Wolf Lord had a frost weapon. What happen? Get him the frost weapon.
The rune priest has a storm bolter and he's not going to use it since he's casting spells every turn. Also, if he engages in CC, he doesn't get the bonus for having 2 CC weapons. So, remove the SB from the Priest.

I also like runic armor on my HQs.

You shouldn't attach the rune priest to the long fangs. This will force at least one model in the unit to fire at the same target the RP is using for his spell. Besides that, you'll have range issues.
Remove a model from one of the GH squads and place the rune priest with them.

If you still need points for the rest, I'd remove one speeder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Much, much better.

In the previous list, your Wolf Lord had a frost weapon. What happen?
The rune priest has a storm bolter and he's not going to use it since he's casting spells every turn. Also, if he engages in CC, he doesn't get the bonus for having 2 CC weapons. So, remove the SB from the Priest.

I also like runic armor on my HQs.

If you're looking for places to make the points available, I'd remove one speeder.

Yeh ok, Ill drop the SB. Ill use those points to get the Frost blde back on the WL. Other than that, Im happy with that, as long as there isnt anything I have missed.
 
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