[s0m3w0n]

Hey again.
At my GW there is an ork player (the only person in the place i cant beat) who no matter what army i use or tactic i try bounces back to spank me. Every game he changes his stuff a little bit but he always fields 2 big units of boys some times big unz black orks usualy 25 and savage ork boar boys. What are the weaknesses of this list, I rear charged him with a 750 point vampire lord and he laughed at it, the lord died to combat res.

 

[InquisitorAffe]

Flank it with something that actually denies rank bonus. It's a very slow moving army. Just hit it in the side with some Knights and it will all run away. Get all those worthless skeletons to eat up things like fanatics and squig hoppers and you should be set.

 

[s0m3w0n]

Makes sence, so much sence i tried it myself. He some how managed to kill 2 and balance it back out, just dosnt work.

 

[buckero0]

hmm, I might be missing something, but I don't see any lists here. What does your army contain? What are the point levels (I'm assuming at least 2k) and that you're playing VC. Do you have banshees, do you have spirit hosts, fast cav, etc. Orcs have pretty average leadership, I would think that failing tests, would work to your favor. Scaring off support and flanking with US5+ units always smacks Orcs. None of the orcs have magic weapons except the characters, so spirit hosts are a good unit to flank with or hit in the front and then flank with skellies or what have you. Banshees ought to kill some guys for you and then you can outnumber and cause fear to them.

 

[s0m3w0n]

I'm not playing any specific army, i play 4 differant ones (choas Vampires Orcs Ogres) And none of them can beat this list.

 

[ArchonFarseerGuy]

If you can wait a month or 2, the Vargulf (new unit) look pretty effective. M9 Ogres pretty much. Easy front charge.

Otherwise, I'd recommend a big unit of Black Knights/Dire Wolves/Chosen Knights of Chaos (Mark of Khorne ftw!)/Ironguts/Savage Orc Boar Boyz of your own. Flank charge his units (as aforementioned). You should be able to roll up his army. Some units may even be able to crush him from the front.

Otherwise, Orcs are very vulnerable to ranged attacks (including Magic). Max out on a few Wizards and watch some DD spells work their magic.

If you're feeling brave, take a ridiculously huge unit of Undead that he CANNOT kill in one turn no matter what. A unit of 30 Zombies expanded by magic or whatever. Have a unit of heavy hitters nearby. Ride out his turn, then countercharge him next turn. You should have outnumber, he'll lose ranks and you'll have a flank charge. He should lose and break. Bang, one nasty unit dead.

Another fun tactic to use is Bait and Flee. Place some Fast Cavalry in their faces, and when they charge, flee (obviously you can't do this with Slaanesh Knights or Undead). Once you rally next turn, do it again. The effect this will have is moving his units 4" forwards every turn. It doesn't work against Cavalry (much) but the predictability you'll have instilled in his Big 'Uns will do you the world of favours.

But hey, if you really run out of ideas, there IS always the dread Hellcannon to fall back on *giggles incessantly.

-AFG

 

[buckero0]

that was the only benefit of skellies, I thought. They can't run. Even if you break them. Hit him in the front with skellies (or other undead) and then he's stuck, if the unit is big enough, you can smack him in the side and rear. If the unit on the flank is big enough, you will steamroll into the flank of another one of his units.

I kind of disagree with the orcs and shooting. The advantage of orcs is that they are tough (harder to kill with shooting) and they are cheap, so there are tons of them to kill before a panic test. Most of his support groups are afraid of you VC. Orcs on Orcs an even match (bigUns or no bigUns, it just comes down to who rolls dice better and can waagh sooner)
Chaos I see you having a problem since you'll be outnumbered 4:1 and he can redirect you easier. Does he play with any goblin units? They are usually the make or break it in the army. If the support units cooperate, it's a tough army to beat just do the the amount of units he has command of.

Remember, the game is won or lost by (dice rolls! justkidding) combat resolution. the big 5 (3ranks, banner, numbers) and then whatever wounds you can cause. You shouldn't get into combats unless you know that you can take away or cancel his big 5 or you know you can out wound him with wounds to spare. Each army has advantages and disadvantages in this department. Learning how to set up your combats is for me, the fun part of the game and definately the most challenging. But that's how the game is won, unless you have silly, unstoppable characters on star dragons, then that wins the game.

 

[kbolster12345]

I bet you Vamp Lord wsn't able to negate ranks. Direwolves are excellent for this. One of my favorite tricks with AoS was to have Vamp chars mounted, summon wolves behind enemy lines, then have the chars go past the opponets units and join the wolves behind enemy lines. When the Character joined the unit the wolves would line up behind him and add US. Usually the character was able to add enough combat wounds to overcome the 2 CR prvided by outnumber and banner.

I also found that a unit of 9 Black Knights joined by a Wight Lord BsB was very hard for anyone to stop even form a straight on charge.

I also found that huge units of skeletons or zombies also offered huge flanks or too much frontage. Neither were desirable. Once I had 40 zombies flanked by four ogres and the enitre unit was wiped out.

 

[s0m3w0n]

My vampire lord on his dragon ran in, negated his ranks, got 2 extra res for rear charge, so that we were even, but he had a BSB and a warbanner and good rolls. He some how survived. I might try more power units with my vampires. But the general idea is flank the units, right ?

 

[ArchonFarseerGuy]

Flanking is generally a good idea. If you can hold him up the turn before, that's good, because you're more likely to get outnumber. Get this: he charges a big unit of Zombies, confident in his abilities. He almost wipes them out to a man (rather, Zombie), but he's confident of doing it next turn. Your Black Knights crash into his flank next turn. All of a sudden he's not so clever. You have a Banner, a flank charge, outnumber, and more wounds than he should get. He has a banner. Bang, he now has to roll snake-eyes to pass.

I know how you feel on the unit 'o doom. My opponent fanatically fields one every game. It wreaks carnage every time, but I manage to shoot it to death before it takes out my entire army.

The Boar Boyz I've never faced, but I think a tar pit is the best idea here. Alternatively, you could set him a cunning trap.=Boar Boyz 0:=cheap Undead unit guaranteed to die in the first combat :happy:=powerful ranked-up unit of yours.

Let the Boyz charge your expendable unit (Dire Wolves can be good for this, since they're smaller but Warhounds, small Gnoblar units or Zombies should do the trick). If he doesn't want to, remind what Frenzy does to his troops.

0:

.......:happy:

Waagh! Die cheap troops! Ug? We killed 'em all? Onwards!!!!!

Their compulsory overrun should take them about here:

.......:happy:

Where they subsequently get flank charged and should die due to CR. If you want to position your troops well, remember that the average die roll is 3.5. So you'd expect an 11 or so from 3D6. I'd position back a couple of inches further in case he gets a good roll and goes behind your troops (very bad). he can go less than what you'd expect though, as your infantry should be pretty much watching the combat on an angle.

-AFG

 

[buckero0]

sounds like you've played this list about 4-5 times. Some of the times I'm thinking you may have got outmatched or he just played a better game. Other times, I think he just got lucky. That happened recently against a friend of mine. He was playing the new HE and has a very challenging list. I was playing my wood elves and no matter what I did, I could not beat him. i played him 3 times in a row and each time I lost, even though the last time was really close. I had rear and flank charages combined and I didn't do a wound. Every game, I think my tactics were pretty good (I did miss a few things) but I rolled really poorly after turn 1 and he rolled poorly, but better in the later combat turns. Sometimes it just goes that way.

 

[kbolster12345]

sounds like you've played this list about 4-5 times. Some of the times I'm thinking you may have got outmatched or he just played a better game. Other times, I think he just got lucky. That happened recently against a friend of mine. He was playing the new HE and has a very challenging list. I was playing my wood elves and no matter what I did, I could not beat him. i played him 3 times in a row and each time I lost, even though the last time was really close. I had rear and flank charages combined and I didn't do a wound. Every game, I think my tactics were pretty good (I did miss a few things) but I rolled really poorly after turn 1 and he rolled poorly, but better in the later combat turns. Sometimes it just goes that way.

I agree. Your opponent is one lucky guy. In my mind a Dragon Lord (especailly VC) getting the rear of any enemy should = autobreak. He should get 1 for outnumber, 1 for banner, 1 for BSB and an extra for warbanner. So 4 for him.
You start at 2 for rear charge. An unless you totally flub things your vamp alone should get 3 wounds and your dragon probably 2.
You win by 3. Should be testing at best on a re-rollable 6. Not extraordinary but I would take those odds.


You got the idea with flanking. BTW do you happen to run with a Banshee. O&G's low leaderhip leaves it'self prone to banshee attacks. Get stuck in with some units and scream at his units a couple of times and his numbers will drop pretty quickly.

 

[Equilibrator]

Dire Wolves?

if you haven't thought about them yet then it's a really great idea.

If you can manage to get a ranked up unit of skellies in the front of the orcs units, then get dire wolves in the side negating ranks and giving you the crucial auto-break, not to mention the extra attacks on largely lightly armoured orcs. Have you tried holding your army back for as long as possible? It may seem a bit stupid, but after three or even four turns of raising dead, your ranks may be swelled enough to tip the odds in your favour.

Ghouls with a vampire in them? auto wounding gets through toughness 4 really nicely, and even with 4+ saves, the extra kills from your vampire would almost certainly give your opponent something to worry about.

Thanks.